Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-18-2014, 11:24 AM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Is this transit bus a good idea?

Hi guys,

I'm checking out a 1991 Orion 744 transit but in eastern WA that supposedly has 25k miles on it. Thing is, I don't know ANYTHING about the engine or transmission. There is also very little information online.

Does anyone have experience with the Cummins L10 or ZF transmissions? Check out the auction here:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auctio ... uc=1149124

Thanks,
DK

One question and answer about it:
Question #1
I have a few questions with regard this Orion.......I attempted to use the VIN decoder to answer some of my questions: But the engine does not look like a 6V92 it appears to be a cummins..........So the decoder was useless; What is the length of this Orion bumper to bumper......what is the engine? And please tell me the transmission is not a Voith........but do tell me what it is with a model Number. Please. And interesting for a transit it appears to have a full compliment of gauges. Are they working: Will Manuals with this Orion convey, you know the factory binders that came with the bus? And finally, what is the rear axle ratio of this Coach. Thank you so much in advance..........
Answer
The engine is Cummins L-10. The bus is 40" in length. The transmission is ZF.
The rear axle ratio is 4.30. It is unknown if all gauges still work as the bus has been out of service for some time. These buses were purchased used for spare buses only so there is no manuals, no factory binders, no original purchase information.

And one of the pics:

djDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 04:28 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

More than likely geared for city driving and what would you do if you needed Orion parts?
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 04:52 PM   #3
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

I guess I was hoping I wouldn't need many Orion specific parts. Is that silly? And according to the guy who manages the fleet it'll top out around 70mph.

And an update regarding mileage, no one has any idea how many miles the bus, engine, or tranny have since last rebuild. Strict regular maintenance intervals have been followed and it's been running great without leaks he says.
djDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 03:10 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djDK
Does anyone have experience with the Cummins L10 or ZF transmissions?
I have no actual experience with them, but I have seen coach buses (Vanhool, and a few Dinas) with that have both the Cummins L10 and a ZF transmission. ZF is a brand, not a specific model. They still sell transmissions and its fairly common to see them in newer vanhools (I know that I saw a few 03s-09s for sale with ZF transmissions).
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products ... r=129_7561
I saw a 91 Vanhool 40 ft bus on craigslist with a cummins L10 that was blown, the bus had 425000 miles on it. I am pretty sure that it displaces around 10 liters (Following the M11 (Successor) numbering (11 means it displaces 11 liters, 11.8 to be exact), so my guess is it wont be too economical on fuel. It seems like a OK engine though.
I know a few old orions in NYC had ZF transmissions, and they were retired at about 650000-750000 miles. I have no idea how many transmissions they went through, but I am sure they were at least on there 2nd one.
jmar896 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 05:48 PM   #5
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

I appreciate the info. I'll look into any data I can find from Vanhools. I also didn't realize transmissions are expected to be replaced that often. Makes it a risky proposition with an unknown mileage and incomplete maintenance history.

I've been getting impatient with the lack of options out here in WA, but with schools just now ending things should improve.
djDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:45 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
GreyEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 801
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
More than likely geared for city driving and what would you do if you needed Orion parts?
Ditto on the gearing for city driving....... mileage would be crap.... to say the least!!!
__________________
GreyEagle
Roll - On...
GreyEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:13 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

I know someone selling a bunch of buses (Res, FEs). All school buses, most of them around 4.5K, if you want his contact info I can PM his number to you, just let me know. They all have good engines and transmissions (5.9 & 8.3 Cummins, MD3060 and MT643)

EDIT: They are in WA, forgot to mention that earlier
jmar896 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 09:56 AM   #8
Bus Geek
 
lornaschinske's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Roswell, NM
Posts: 3,588
Year: 1986
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: 40 ft All American FE
Engine: 8.2LTA Fuel Pincher DD V8
Rated Cap: 89
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

To find info on Transit buses, try asking at http://busnut.com/forum/ and/or http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php. There are member on both forums (possibly the same members) that have converted transits.
__________________
This post is my opinion. It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
Fulltime since 2006
The goal of life is living in agreement with nature. Zeno (335BC-264BC)
https://lorndavi.wordpress.com/blog/
https://i570.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps0340a6ff.jpg
lornaschinske is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 12:20 PM   #9
Moderator
 
crazycal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

No. Unless you are rich. Still no.
__________________
I'm hungry!

You Gotta Let Me Fly
crazycal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 06:16 PM   #10
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Thanks again everyone. I think I'm going to let this one go while I do more research.

jmar, my budget is around $2k for the bus itself. A white water rafting company out here just picked up a very nice looking school bus from a local school for $600. I don't know the details on it. Could have been a connection they had. I wish they didn't tell me that though...
djDK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:15 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 151
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

I bet you could get a older tc/2000 for around 2000. If you ask local transportation company's you may have some luck. Internet auctions have higher prices than local ones. I just was at a river rafting company in PA and I found out they got 96 Crown/internationals at a local auction for 1200 or 1300 with the dt466 and mt643. Simaler ones got sold on govdeals between 1800 and 2500
jmar896 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 06:11 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
mokibrabrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 410
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown Super Coach
Chassis: Built on a Crown Chassis
Engine: 300HP BIG CAM TURBO 855
Rated Cap: 78
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Though 4.30 is a higher gear than a typical highway Coach 3.84 it is considerably lower than most schoolies............most schoolies are geared at 5.44............5.38............etc.............so the claim that this coach would get horrible fuel mileage is absurd.............Also the transmission is a 5 speed with a true overdrive.........final drive ratio at .85............so it will get excellent fuel mileage.............the Cummins L10 is a better engine than you'll find in most Schoolies, and in fact is viewed by most to be a very good engine...........

I know these buses have now been sold, and I bought the sister bus to this, the one with the claimed 95000 actual miles. Which i saw to be over-all straighter and cleaner than the other. Especially the engine compartment..............I just had this Orion transported a couple hundred miles and it handled and performed flawlessly, all the lights and gauges worked, other than the fuel gauge was a bit inaccurate. Also these buses had a full compliment of Gauges: Like Crown, the only thing proprietary to Orion is the Chassis, the glass, and of course the superstructure of the bus which is built of stainless steel.........and then covered with a proprietary anti corrosion material.............

Like the Crown is a West Coast phenom the Orion was more prevalent on the east Coast........though many did make it out west. These yakima Orion 1's by many thought to be the best Orion's ever built, some were built at TMC subsidiary of MCI:....

I can't give any mileage figures at this point as the journey isn't complete. Orion uses over the road class 8 truck parts, like Crown, still very much available. These two Orions, are far better constructed than surely any Thomas or Blue Bird of that era...........and by far has a superior, more efficient drive train. I purchased mine a 2400 bucks, below scrap value, it is also cool, in that all the windows are capable of opening out, and it is a very well build machine.........and will be far more reliable and surely economical than all but the rarest of schoolies. Just a bit of a reality check for those who think that a TC2000 would be a better investment: That's simply not true: Most TC2000 have a rear axle somewhere in the 5's, have a final drive ratio of 1:1...........and will be tightly wound at highway speed, which will cause them to fail prematurely in highway driving...........
__________________
I come from no country, from no city, no tribe. I am the son of the road... all tongues and all prayers belong to me. But I belong to none of them.
mokibrabrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 09:29 PM   #13
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 147
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TE2000 FE
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mokibrabrant
Though 4.30 is a higher gear than a typical highway Coach 3.84 it is considerably lower than most schoolies............most schoolies are geared at 5.44............5.38............etc.............so the claim that this coach would get horrible fuel mileage is absurd.............Also the transmission is a 5 speed with a true overdrive.........final drive ratio at .85............so it will get excellent fuel mileage.............the Cummins L10 is a better engine than you'll find in most Schoolies, and in fact is viewed by most to be a very good engine...........

I know these buses have now been sold, and I bought the sister bus to this, the one with the claimed 95000 actual miles. Which i saw to be over-all straighter and cleaner than the other. Especially the engine compartment..............I just had this Orion transported a couple hundred miles and it handled and performed flawlessly, all the lights and gauges worked, other than the fuel gauge was a bit inaccurate. Also these buses had a full compliment of Gauges: Like Crown, the only thing proprietary to Orion is the Chassis, the glass, and of course the superstructure of the bus which is built of stainless steel.........and then covered with a proprietary anti corrosion material.............

Like the Crown is a West Coast phenom the Orion was more prevalent on the east Coast........though many did make it out west. These yakima Orion 1's by many thought to be the best Orion's ever built, some were built at TMC subsidiary of MCI:....

I can't give any mileage figures at this point as the journey isn't complete. Orion uses over the road class 8 truck parts, like Crown, still very much available. These two Orions, are far better constructed than surely any Thomas or Blue Bird of that era...........and by far has a superior, more efficient drive train. I purchased mine a 2400 bucks, below scrap value, it is also cool, in that all the windows are capable of opening out, and it is a very well build machine.........and will be far more reliable and surely economical than all but the rarest of schoolies. Just a bit of a reality check for those who think that a TC2000 would be a better investment: That's simply not true: Most TC2000 have a rear axle somewhere in the 5's, have a final drive ratio of 1:1...........and will be tightly wound at highway speed, which will cause them to fail prematurely in highway driving...........

While a lot of what you say is true not all is well in the transit class buses, as a instructor and technician on them I know they were built to go a million miles. Problem is not all of the guys maintaining them were that good at their job so trust but verify is my motto. Next school buses are far more stout then a transit bus. If you have ever had to go to a transit wreck (I have) you would understand. While all that stainless steel is neat watch out for vibration stress, same as they watch pout for it on all vehicles made of it. Next schoolies are made to support their weight on the roof but transits are not. and as far as gear ratio goes I found transits with low and high ratios depending on route and the same for school buses. Mine has a 4.44 to 1 with a true overdrive and 68 mph tachs at 1875 rpm and that's not bad. The L10 is an excellent engine and hard to beat for power and serviceability. Well enough ramblings my point is the bus you got is the one you love so enjoy what you have.

Chuck
cschlessman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2014, 09:34 AM   #14
Moderator
 
crazycal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
Re: Is this transit bus a good idea?

Price a rebuilt trans for it. That's why I say no.
__________________
I'm hungry!

You Gotta Let Me Fly
crazycal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 10:59 AM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Good, bad, or indifferent? 1999OrionV1VH5H3B23X6500616217,265 (Accurate?: Unknown)No Title Restriction

Currently at $750



I can't find anything using the VIN. If the wiki page is to be believed, they came with two different trannies. Assuming the Voith is correct, and the (other) wiki page is to be believed, then a 1:1 could be a problem depending on rear ratio. The 6 speed would obviously be best.


Listing
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...ccess#question


Tranny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Re...ions_bus_fleet

Gears:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_Ecomat


The Orion Bus Industries Orion V was a high floor transit bus available in Canada and the United States. One of the longest running line of buses from Orion ...

How high is high?
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:31 PM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
"High floor" is simply the opposite of "low floor" or in other words, it's normal height. The high aka standard height is where it needs to be in order to fit a straight axle, springs, and frame rail underneath. This as opposed to a "low floor" model which uses a special front suspension so that the floor from the front door to just behind the rear door can be something like 12 inches off the ground.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:43 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post
"High floor" is simply the opposite of "low floor" or in other words, it's normal height. The high aka standard height is where it needs to be in order to fit a straight axle, springs, and frame rail underneath. This as opposed to a "low floor" model which uses a special front suspension so that the floor from the front door to just behind the rear door can be something like 12 inches off the ground.
I get that but what's the ground clearance at the pumpkin or whatever "solid" item is slowest. I don't count the skirts as solid.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:50 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 11:39 AM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SW New Hampshire
Posts: 1,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Good, bad, or indifferent? 1999OrionV1VH5H3B23X6500616217,265 (Accurate?: Unknown)No Title Restriction

Currently at $750



I can't find anything using the VIN. If the wiki page is to be believed, they came with two different trannies. Assuming the Voith is correct, and the (other) wiki page is to be believed, then a 1:1 could be a problem depending on rear ratio. The 6 speed would obviously be best.


Listing
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...ccess#question


Tranny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Re...ions_bus_fleet

Gears:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_Ecomat


The Orion Bus Industries Orion V was a high floor transit bus available in Canada and the United States. One of the longest running line of buses from Orion ...

How high is high?
That's my hood. With WilliamBailey off the air and porkchopsandwiches in CO I seem to be the MD/DC rep. You need me to get over there and get you some pics?

The whole RideOn system was designed to be a feeder to and complement the existing MetroBus system. The Metro cruises the main drags and deliberately ends most of its routes at Metrorail stops. Intermodal, doncha know. RideOn goes back into the neighborhoods, all the little side streets. They stop every other block. NONE of them will be long legged. The great majority are 24 footers and that one's a 40 so there's always the exception to the rule, but I just don't see them on the higher speed limited access roads. Something to think about.
dan-fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:16 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
No, I get that but the skirts are sheet metal and can be removed. Center of wherever the wheel hub is would be the important factor. Since these coaches apparently use car sized tires, that is going to be about 15" max. Carried over a 40' span that doesn't leave you with much of an angle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
That's my hood. With WilliamBailey off the air and porkchopsandwiches in CO I seem to be the MD/DC rep. You need me to get over there and get you some pics?
Nah, but thx.

Quote:
The whole RideOn system was designed to be a feeder to and complement the existing MetroBus system. The Metro cruises the main drags and deliberately ends most of its routes at Metrorail stops. Intermodal, doncha know. RideOn goes back into the neighborhoods, all the little side streets. They stop every other block. NONE of them will be long legged. The great majority are 24 footers and that one's a 40 so there's always the exception to the rule, but I just don't see them on the higher speed limited access roads. Something to think about.
I do vastly prefer the skoolie to the coach... even the true coaches like Provost and Van but if I keep seeing skoolies selling for $6k and metros selling for $1k, I gotta give them some thought.

It would be really nice to be able to pick up a Provost with the 150k miles for $5k like the skoolies but I general see them in the $10~15k with 500~800 already on the clock. I got 2 numbers on the lottery ticket right this week. Grand payout: $0 so we are sticking with the budget buses.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding a second floor to a bus - good idea? dphillips Conversion General Discussions 22 04-25-2015 08:43 PM
cat 3116 a good idea natertots Conversion General Discussions 11 08-25-2014 01:59 PM
good el-cheapo filtering idea sdwarf36 Alternative Fuels | Electric, Propane, Wood & Biofuels 0 04-24-2010 08:23 AM
Midwest Transit GOOD or BAD? wmah Everything Else | General Skoolie Discussions 0 10-05-2009 05:06 PM
Party Bus- Is this a good idea? OregonFan2008 Everything Else | General Skoolie Discussions 16 02-21-2007 10:31 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.