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Old 09-30-2014, 08:51 PM   #1
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Spray Foam Question

Hello Everyone! Quick question about spray foam and thermal breaks. We will be strapping the walls with strips of 3/4" plywood for our thermal break per instructions of many posts on the forum. We will be having spray foam done soon. Do we strap the walls and ceiling first and have the foam built up to the level of the wood strips or do we spray foam first and have the foam built up to the level of the steel support beams in the bus?

Does my question make sense? I can take pics if it doesn't!

1992 Bluebird.

Thanks!

Jeremy

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Old 09-30-2014, 09:31 PM   #2
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Re: Spray Foam Question

my bus had been previously done with spray foam. here is a picture of how the inside looks. the foam goes to the steel, boards attached to the same.

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Old 09-30-2014, 09:56 PM   #3
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Re: Spray Foam Question

You can do either way, but if it goes flush with your wood strips it can SQUEEK against your paneling.

My vote is to do it flush with hoops and then use a sound proofing (wool or cotton) in between the strips if you have the dough.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:14 AM   #4
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Re: Spray Foam Question

I attached 3/4" strips perpendicular to the bus ribs then spray foamed under the wood and over the ribs, then paneled over. No squeaks. If I were to do it again, I'd do the same thing, except I'd hire a pro spray foamer. It would have been around the same price, but it would have been less wasteful and tidier. Also, the stuff the pros use expands more than the kit stuff and thus would get between the wood strips and the metal roof better. That was quite a challenge
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:29 AM   #5
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Re: Spray Foam Question

Did you insulate INSIDE the ribs? Is that possible with spray foam?
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:47 AM   #6
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Re: Spray Foam Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_w
Did you insulate INSIDE the ribs? Is that possible with spray foam?
Nope, not possible unless you take the outside skin off. I insulated over the ribs. I would be surprised if insulating inside the ribs would actually do any good. Since they are directly connected to the outside metal they act as a thermal bridge from the bus skin to the inside. Foaming the hollow inside of the ribs would not stop heat/cold from travelling through the metal, around the insulation to the inside of the bus. Foaming OVER the ribs, on the other hand, does work. Put as much as you can over those things..

Studs in a house have a similar effect (thermal bridging), but we don't notice it as much since wood isn't as good of a conductor. Here are some thermal images of what I'm talking about.

Inside of house is warm, outside is cool:


Inside of house is cool, outside is warm:
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:49 AM   #7
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Re: Spray Foam Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
I attached 3/4" strips perpendicular to the bus ribs then spray foamed under the wood and over the ribs, then paneled over. No squeaks. If I were to do it again, I'd do the same thing, except I'd hire a pro spray foamer. It would have been around the same price, but it would have been less wasteful and tidier. Also, the stuff the pros use expands more than the kit stuff and thus would get between the wood strips and the metal roof better. That was quite a challenge
Thanks Jatzy. I think this is what I will do. It will give an extra 3/4" of insulation all around!
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:43 PM   #8
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Re: Spray Foam Question

We are dropping the bus off to get sprayed in two more days... I have another question. Does anyone know what kind of heat that spray foam can withstand? I was wondering if it would be possible to spray foam the inside of our engine hatch/lid on our FE TC2000? The foam noise/heat insulation thingy is falling apart. Figured spray foam could be a good replacement if it can withstand the heat. Anyone ever try this?
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:34 PM   #9
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Re: Spray Foam Question

I think you will get better sound protection with a dense material --like horse stall rubber mat. The foam stuff is real good at quieting high pitch noise, but the low pitch noise of a (diesel) bus is better quieted with very dense material--lead is best. Jack
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:21 AM   #10
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Re: Spray Foam Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol trunt
I think you will get better sound protection with a dense material --like horse stall rubber mat. The foam stuff is real good at quieting high pitch noise, but the low pitch noise of a (diesel) bus is better quieted with very dense material--lead is best. Jack
Thanks Jack!
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:07 PM   #11
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Re: Spray Foam Question

FYI: Spray foam needs air to expand. Inside the closed enviroment of a items such as a 2"x2" hollow tube (even one with extra holes drilled into to allow the foam to expand), the foam will not expand except within the first inch or so (often less) of the tube opening. We know this from personal experience. We did not foam the frame tubes of the Blue Bird.


http://coachconversioncentral.com/fredhobe6.htm scroll down to find "tips on what I use to cut foam" if you yourself will be cutting the foam down flush.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:46 PM   #12
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Re: Spray Foam Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornaschinske
http://coachconversioncentral.com/fredhobe6.htm scroll down to find "tips on what I use to cut foam" if you yourself will be cutting the foam down flush.
The contractor will be shaving it down for us
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Old 10-30-2016, 12:32 PM   #13
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The more I research spray foam insulation the more I want it. I am curious what the group has seen (or been bid) to get a bus insulated professionally with spray foam?

I have been wrestling with a couple of ideas: My wife had planned on using the bus while doing the conversion over a longer period of time. From what I can tell the prep work required for the spray foam doesn't lend itself doing the conversion one room at a time.

Possible Option #1: This led to a thought, what about doing the spray foam myself? Has anybody used the home depot 2 part foam spray?

Possible Option #2: Another thought was to use thinner rigid insulation and then fill the gaps with spray foam or a two part spray. Any experience out there with this combo method?

A third option was to do the 2-part foam then lay in a thin sheet of rigid on top of it... Really just a hybrid of option 2.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:03 PM   #14
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Did you notice the price on that Home Depot spray foam kit? $734.-!

I once bought a similar kit at a professional store. Similar price. It was a terrible disappointment. The foam did not expand to anything like I envisioned.

I had previously used 2-component foam in regular cans -- X-30 from Tap Plastics -- and that stuff expands tremendously. (It expands 30-fold, hence the name.)

By comparison, the spray kit didn't do much more than thick paint. And by the time I had covered an 8-foot diameter disc with maybe one inch of foam, the cans were empty. Nothing even resembling the 50 Cubic Feet mentioned for the Home Depot kit.

I wound up installing blocks of polystyrene (styrofoam) and pouring X-30 into the gaps.
(I was building a pontoon for an amphibious vehicle.)

Perhaps the kit was defective. In fact, that seems likely. But at that price, I will never experiment with such again.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:07 PM   #15
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That X-30 foam looks pretty good, says on the TAP web site that it does make good insulation but not sure how you'd get it to stay in place on a ceiling, since it looks to be "pour and let expand" type of thing. And I'm not flipping my bus over to do that! heh.

It almost seems like you'd have to put a run of ceiling material up, inject the mixed foam and hope it doesn't leak out the cracks between panels before it expands and fills up the void....
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad.nuesmeyer View Post
The more I research spray foam insulation the more I want it. I am curious what the group has seen (or been bid) to get a bus insulated professionally with spray foam?

I have been wrestling with a couple of ideas: My wife had planned on using the bus while doing the conversion over a longer period of time. From what I can tell the prep work required for the spray foam doesn't lend itself doing the conversion one room at a time.

Possible Option #1: This led to a thought, what about doing the spray foam myself? Has anybody used the home depot 2 part foam spray?

Possible Option #2: Another thought was to use thinner rigid insulation and then fill the gaps with spray foam or a two part spray. Any experience out there with this combo method?

A third option was to do the 2-part foam then lay in a thin sheet of rigid on top of it... Really just a hybrid of option 2.
i used 2 600 sf kits from ebay, thats 600 sf at 1 inch.they worked very well, they cost just under 600 bucks each. my ribs are 2" thick so i filled that in and now im putting 1/2 " foam board up as a thermal break. my bus is 32' long re
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:06 PM   #17
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X-30 is sticky, but it expands very fast, so there is no time to brush it on or otherwise place it carefully. I made a horrible mess in Millicent when I did not pour it quickly enough and it welled out of the jar I mixed it in.

If you had some crude but effective spray "cannon" that you could quickly pour a quart into and spray it all in a couple seconds, it might work, but of course that is not at all realistic. I'm just having fun here. Maybe pour it onto an electric fan.

Seriously, since others have had good results with the spray kits, I'm pretty much convinced I bought a defective kit.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:56 AM   #18
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It almost sounds like to spray on the X-30 I'd have to have some sort of sprayer that mixes it as it's spraying. I'm sure there's some sort of beast like that out there but probably mega-$$$ and not sure I'd want to spend it for something I'm only gonna use once..... suppose I'll have to figure something else out. From what others have said I could have it professionally done for what the DIY kits cost after factoring in the waste amount. Still pretty mild temperatures here in middle TN so that should give me a little bit of time to figure out a plan.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:26 AM   #19
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Unless there's been a recent change... that's how the spray kits work -- they mix the two components right in the sprayer.
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