Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-14-2007, 02:43 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Livingston, Mont. & New Orleans, La.
Posts: 12
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford E-350
Engine: 6.9L Diesel
55-gallon barrels of WVO on back of bus

Hi everybody,

I have just converted my 1986 Thomas Minotour short bus (based on Ford E-350 chassis) to SVO/WVO. I hope to be able to carry WVO with me as I travel, have an idea how I might do it, & am wondering if anybody can give me advice on the feasibility of my idea.

In short, I wonder if it's possible to weld a ledge onto the back bumper/rear end of the bus, wide & deep enough (the width of the bus, projecting two feet) to allow me to strap three 55-gallon barrels of WVO onto it. My concern is that there might be too much weight for, 1) the ledge to hold it all, & 2) stability of the bus. The Dana rear axle is rated for 7,400 lbs. Fully loaded I estimate the barrels might weigh about 4-5,000 lbs (I might be wrong about this). Of course, as I travel along, the weight will constantly be decreasing as I use up the oil.

Does anybody have any ideas whether this would work?

Many thanks,

H.

__________________
1986 Ford E350/Thomas Minotour
PlantDrive TTVTM SVO conversion
rhclayto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:53 PM   #2
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Livingston, Mont. & New Orleans, La.
Posts: 12
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford E-350
Engine: 6.9L Diesel
Actually I think I way overestimated the weight of barrels of WVO in my last post. According to the MSDS sheet for vegetable oils at http://www.cataniausa.com/msds.html , the weight per gallon is about 7.65, so round up to 8. That puts each barrel at 440 lbs, so 1,320 lbs for three of them.
__________________
1986 Ford E350/Thomas Minotour
PlantDrive TTVTM SVO conversion
rhclayto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 05:58 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
the_experience03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Saint James, MN
Posts: 2,669
Send a message via MSN to the_experience03 Send a message via Yahoo to the_experience03
That's A LOT of weight on the back of that vehicle. I've seen plenty of 1 tons running around with 1000 lbs of tongue weight...but they had weight distributing hitches. You need to get the bus weighted first and find out how much weight is on each axle first of all. Obviously you will need to subtract out the unsprung weight of the axle and wheels, but I think you will find that you are very close to the max capacity of that axle. Is it a Dana 80 DRW? Dana 70 DRW or SRW? You will also need to heed the capacity of the tires. Call a Ford dealership and find out what the maxium trailer tongue weight allowed by that vehicle is without a weight distributing hitch. Heck...it might even be in the manual if you have it. Either way, I'd be a little nervous with that much weight on the back end of the vehicle.
__________________
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...09f20d39_m.jpg
Skooling it...one state at a time...
the_experience03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 08:16 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Livingston, Mont. & New Orleans, La.
Posts: 12
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford E-350
Engine: 6.9L Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_experience03
That's A LOT of weight on the back of that vehicle. I've seen plenty of 1 tons running around with 1000 lbs of tongue weight...but they had weight distributing hitches. You need to get the bus weighted first and find out how much weight is on each axle first of all. Obviously you will need to subtract out the unsprung weight of the axle and wheels, but I think you will find that you are very close to the max capacity of that axle. Is it a Dana 80 DRW? Dana 70 DRW or SRW? You will also need to heed the capacity of the tires. Call a Ford dealership and find out what the maxium trailer tongue weight allowed by that vehicle is without a weight distributing hitch. Heck...it might even be in the manual if you have it. Either way, I'd be a little nervous with that much weight on the back end of the vehicle.
It's a Dana 70 dualie.

Thanks. I'll look into what you've suggested.

H.
__________________
1986 Ford E350/Thomas Minotour
PlantDrive TTVTM SVO conversion
rhclayto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 10:49 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
Put them up on top like most people do
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 01:13 AM   #6
Bus Geek
 
the_experience03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Saint James, MN
Posts: 2,669
Send a message via MSN to the_experience03 Send a message via Yahoo to the_experience03
I found spring specs for that chassis that you can use to ballpark things before you get to the scales. The deflection rate on those rear springs is 894 lbs per inch. Round that to 900. Since you have two springs, it is 1800 lbs total per inch of deflection. So...time to measure. Measure the distance between the top of the spring and the frame when it's just sitting there. Then jack both sides of the rear up until the wheels are JUST touching the ground. Measure again. I bet it will have gone up atleast 3.5 or 4 inches meaning 4500 or 5400 lbs putting the load from that veggie oil dangerously close to your maximum. If it's still ok, then you might want to consider going to scales, but I still think you're running dangerously close to overloading the frame and/or axle.
__________________
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...09f20d39_m.jpg
Skooling it...one state at a time...
the_experience03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 08:06 AM   #7
Bus Geek
 
lapeer20m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: near flint michigan
Posts: 2,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldog12
Put them up on top like most people do
putting 1,500 pounds on the roof of a short bus is a really bad idea. Your center of gravity would be affected in a negative way.

with my full size 72 passenger skoolie i found that having one 55 gallon drum of veggie on the roof is extremely noticable. When driving, having that ~500 pounds on the roof is far more noticable as far as making the bus sway from side to side than it is with ~4000 pounds of water in the jacuzzi.


just my 2 cents.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes (who will watch the watchmen?)
lapeer20m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 09:20 AM   #8
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
YES, putting the 55 gal drums up on the roof WILL change the CG, and YES you will have to find the correct pump to move the WVO up that high, but let me see..... hmmm..... oh my gosh, there ain't no where else to go....
Is there???
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 09:58 AM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Roasting8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 382
Year: 1981
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Crown
Engine: 671 DD
Send a message via MSN to Roasting8 Send a message via Yahoo to Roasting8
I would think that maybe, just maybe, reducing the load to only one 55 gal drum might resolve the problem.

Just a thought.
Roasting8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #10
Bus Geek
 
lapeer20m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: near flint michigan
Posts: 2,657
Quote:
I would think that maybe, just maybe, reducing the load to only one 55 gal drum might resolve the problem.

Just a thought.


oldog12 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:20 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES, putting the 55 gal drums up on the roof WILL change the CG, and YES you will have to find the correct pump to move the WVO up that high, but let me see..... hmmm..... oh my gosh, there ain't no where else to go....
Is there???
or use a smaller tank.

I do like the idea of having the tank up high as far as the simplicity of getting the oil from the tank to the engine. How about a flexible tank kind of like a small version of a waterbed....The sun could help heat the veggie...although on 2nd thought the sun might degrade the plastic material....

i work as a paramedic and i can't immagine putting a 500 pound tank on the roof of one of our rigs. They are basically about the same size/weight as a shorty bus. Our trucks are mostly E450 chassis weighing in at about 12K pounds.

perhaps the best way is to just try it and see how it feels. I would immagine that the driver will decide having that much weight that high off the ground will be undersirable if not unacceptable.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes (who will watch the watchmen?)
lapeer20m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:34 AM   #11
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
Less is more
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:43 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
The military use these huge rubber bladders as field fuel points, they even move them around by CH-47 and such, and lay out in the sun all the time, but they are HUGE... But with WVO, isn't there something with the WVO degrading the plastic of non food grade plastic ?
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 12:25 PM   #13
Bus Nut
 
Roasting8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 382
Year: 1981
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Crown
Engine: 671 DD
Send a message via MSN to Roasting8 Send a message via Yahoo to Roasting8
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldog12
The military use these huge rubber bladders as field fuel points, they even move them around by CH-47 and such, and lay out in the sun all the time, but they are HUGE... But with WVO, isn't there something with the WVO degrading the plastic of non food grade plastic ?
I'm not sure if it's plastic or something in rubber. I do know that there are hoses that are susceptible to VO.
Roasting8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 12:39 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
Well, that was really in reply to Jason's suggestion about a "flexible tank kind of like a small version of a waterbed..." but the ... oh crap I forgot the real name for it, but for lack of a better description, the hydraulic hammering that would occur with a pliable bladder on the roof (accelerating / decelerating).... well... Let's just say I'd go with a smaller container than 55 gal on the roof. Whats's more, I would be very careful to consider putting anything like that inside the vehicle, because I think that stuff stinks, and Murphy and I have a long, long acquaintance... in other words, if something is going to leak inside of your skoolie, you just KNOW it's gonna be the smelliest, most disgusting thing you've got....
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 02:37 PM   #15
Bus Crazy
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 1,839
Send a message via AIM to Steve
If you just wanted to bring the WVO with you it would make more sense to get a small trailer to pull behind the bus and put them in there where you could then transfer the WVO into the tank on the bus as you travel.
__________________
View my 1972 Ward: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1986 Blue Bird: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1960 GMC: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 03:20 PM   #16
Bus Nut
 
Roasting8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 382
Year: 1981
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Crown
Engine: 671 DD
Send a message via MSN to Roasting8 Send a message via Yahoo to Roasting8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
If you just wanted to bring the WVO with you it would make more sense to get a small trailer to pull behind the bus and put them in there where you could then transfer the WVO into the tank on the bus as you travel.

Steve, that seems the best reply yet. Not only does it allow the amount that he wants to carry, but also he could do it safely.
Roasting8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 06:33 PM   #17
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
Good idea
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 08:02 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
the_experience03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Saint James, MN
Posts: 2,669
Send a message via MSN to the_experience03 Send a message via Yahoo to the_experience03
I agree with the trailer idea. It will give you storage space (much appreciated on a full size bus, let alone a shortie), will allow you to control tongue weight on the frame, and I don't think it will affect mileage at all given the average gearing of our rigs, both large and small.
__________________
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...09f20d39_m.jpg
Skooling it...one state at a time...
the_experience03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 10:48 AM   #19
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
There was a British tank in WWII that carried the fuel for its flame thrower in a trailer behind it

It was called the Churchill Crocodile. The trailer was connected to the tank via this huge articulated pipe that allowed it to draw the fuel on the move, and oh yeah... it was armored too
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 11:03 AM   #20
Bus Nut
 
oldog12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 381
Here's a better picture, I hope...

What I meant was that the idea of a trailer for the WVO seems to have a good deal of merit
oldog12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 gallon water heater for RV - Never used-still in box - $1 luno Classifieds | Buy, Sell, Swap 0 07-05-2009 11:23 AM
120 Gallon Tank... GoneCamping Classifieds | Buy, Sell, Swap 0 09-25-2008 09:37 PM
Clearcoat at $30.00 per gallon Abbott Conversion General Discussions 4 06-06-2008 08:12 PM
how many miles per gallon should i get 1993bluebird Conversion General Discussions 2 04-18-2008 08:27 PM
plumbing fittings for water barrels? Branden Conversion General Discussions 12 08-21-2006 10:05 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.