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Old 02-05-2014, 01:28 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Hi,

My boyfriend and I (Europeans) are planning on buying a skoolie in California, converting it and turning it into a mobile hostel.
We're now in Mexico and hope to buy the bus in July in the California, does anybody know a good place to find a 40ft one? (5000$ or less)

We're super excited as the whole plan is ready but we're struggling with one thing: insurance.
Our plan is to drive for 6 months in the US, 6 months in Canada and the same for a second year.
I contacted Blue Sky insurance (who National General referred me to) who answered me:

Quote:
You could take out an annual policy and cancel it with us when you travel to Canada. You can then purchase a Canadian policy but we are not sure if they will do that with a vehicle registered in CA USA. You may want to find that out first. We could then write another annual policy for the following year that you can cancel. All premium not used would be pro rated back to you.
Does anybody know a Canadian insurance company in BC who would do this?
And one more question about seatbelt regulations: can it just be a seatbelt around the hip or does it have to go crosswise over shoulders for all passengers? Can they sit sideways on a bench (with seat belts) against the wall?

Thanks heaps for helping out!

Cheers,

Val

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Old 02-05-2014, 03:09 PM   #2
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Are you talking about normal vehicle insurance? If so, I'm sure you can find an insurer who will cover you in all of North America. I'm in Canada and all of my insurers past and present include coverage while in the states (RBC, Desjardin, other one I can't remember)
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:08 PM   #3
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Stop telling the insurance agents more info than they need.

Get a US residence, insure, drive where ever you want.

The more you tell a insurance agent, the more trouble you will have, and the more it will cost you.

The interior of a bus has no insurable value.

The bus is only worth $2000 max to the insurance agent.

No insurance for the bus, just for the other people involved. This brings the price down to as much as half.

Tell them its a steel tent with a few cots in it. The more basic it sounds the better. With the exception of the needed items, toilet, fridge, blaw, blaw. This all depends on what state you choose.

I only made that mistake once.

Nat
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #4
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Are you planning on transporting people for hire? If so you become a commercial vehicle and the rules are different.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:23 PM   #5
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

thanks for the help,

Netster:
If I don't tell them we go to Canada and the bus crashes there.. what happens if we have been there for two months (two weeks is the max)?
They can see on our pasport when we got in right?

The state we choose is California, and saying it's only 2000$ worth sounds good, but what IF we do crash..
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:26 PM   #6
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

where your bus is registered is where you get insurance. and it should be good where ever you drive, no need to buy insurance for Canada. to buy insurance here in Canada you would have to register it in what ever province you want which would mean a address , a safety inspection, and try to fine a insurance company that will insure a skoolie , so just insure and stay with what ever state your bus is registered in best way.
and for seat belts, a lap belt is ok to use, you have to have one for each person .
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:10 AM   #7
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Only advice I have is pick a state other than California... With there stupid laws and regulations.....you might have more issues than its worth
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:31 AM   #8
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
Only advice I have is pick a state other than California... With there stupid laws and regulations.....you might have more issues than its worth
I second this. California has crazy tax/resident laws. Buy the bus there, sure (that's where oursand renewed is from) but register it elsewhere.
Try a state that has less taxes, like Texas, Florida, New Hampshire, etc. NH does not have income tax, excise tax or sales tax and does not require insurance on vehicles (but you still need it if you drive in other states).

You definitely don't need a separate insurance plan for Canada, especially considering you are not and will not be a resident there. As for the two week limit, I've never heard of such a thing. I have a friend that drives tour buses and was in Canada for months and came back into the states with no hassle about the time there (they were hassled because there were dead animal heads in the band's part of the bus - gross) but I will check with him just in case.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:46 PM   #9
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Thanks everybody,

We were very honest with the insurance company about our plan, first they said we could be insured for 1300$ a year, then they said their guidelines changed so they can't insure our bus.

A few questions I still have:
- I heard a lot that it is cheaper to register the bus in another state. For us it's best to convert the bus in California as we have lots of contacts there. But can we drive to another state to register our bus? Don't we have to get insurance first in order to get into another state or is that not true?

- The fact that you guys know people who drove in Canada without a problem sounds great, but in this case we're not just talking about us but we have 7 clients (snowboarders who stay in our bus) with us. We won't be a commercial vehicle, we try everything to avoid that, but we are still responsible for our clients. (Or can we maybe make them sign a waiver?) So WHAT IF we crash in the mountains in Canada, and something happens to one of our clients and we didn't tell the insurance company we were in Canada for a longer period? Will they check our passports?

- What insurance company would you guys recommend? And what State? Our route will be California-Utah-Colorado.. so best would be a state nearby..

- Normally if you get the cheapest insurance possible, what is covert? Are passengers covert? The buss will be an incredible conversion, prob worth at least 20.000$ or more in the end, so what if we get the cheapest insurance and something bad happens, how much will be covered.

I hate to think negative, it's against everything I believe in, but this project is our biggest dream coming true, so stupid unrealistic actions can be fatal.

Thanks heaps for thinking along. Highly appreciated.

www.letsbenomads.com
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:15 PM   #10
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

As soon as you said "clients" you lost the game.

If you take money from someone, you now enter a whole new world. You need to be talking to a lawyer, or just accept the risk, and get regular insurance.

IMO There is far too much of this crap poping up on here. If you want to make money with a bus, do it by the rules, and stop trying to get others to sugar coat it for you to make you feel better about breaking the law.

Nat
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:51 PM   #11
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Nat,

You're right in some way, and I wish we could 'just' do it by the rules.
Alas, it's not that easy. We are Europeans which makes everything harder. And yes, we are talking to lawyers.

We don't want to make money with the bus, we are a non-profit, supporting Beyond Boarding (www.beyondboarding.org) and doing nothing but good for the mountains.. so all we need is a way to cover our expenses.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:54 PM   #12
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Letsbenomads, how does being European change the fact that you are trying to insure a bus? How do these "clients" propose to pay their way for the trip in the bus?

Are you a non-profit organization registered in the United States?
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:16 PM   #13
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Schoolmarm,

To take it a few steps back, no we ware not an official non-profit, but we are not keeping the profits for ourselves. We try to use a non-profit license from a non-profit but is not really working out. And maybe the Canadian production company we will be partnering up with will be able to help us in some way.
The clients will pay through paypal online. The fact of being European is not a big problem for insurance but I thought it probably would be for becoming a commercial vehicle.

BUT, now my question is.. do we actually have to be a commercial vehicle if we have 5 paying passengers on board, in total we will still not bet more than 9. The normal amount that makes you a commercial vehicle. Can we just be personal even though we have 5 paying passengers?

Thanks
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:30 PM   #14
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

It is my opinion that if you are "trying" to be a non-profit but are not legally a non-profit and you get caught then you will be in more trouble than you wish to be in.

ANY repeat ANY amount of money that your "clients" pay you automatically makes you a "commercial endeavor".

Again let me say that no one is against your idea, just do it legally.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:36 PM   #15
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsbenomads
Do we actually have to be a commercial vehicle if we have 5 paying passengers on board, in total we will still not bet more than 9. The normal amount that makes you a commercial vehicle. Can we just be personal even though we have 5 paying passengers?

Thanks
No, that number of passengers makes you a commercial Driver, here you need a class 2.

Number of passengers has nothing to do with a motor vehicle being commercial or not. If you make money with it, it's commercial.

Even pizza and news paper delivery cars are commercial and require commercial insurance.

Again, what did the lawyer say?

Nat
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:45 AM   #16
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsbenomads
Do we actually have to be a commercial vehicle if we have 5 paying passengers on board, in total we will still not bet more than 9. The normal amount that makes you a commercial vehicle. Can we just be personal even though we have 5 paying passengers?

Thanks
No, that number of passengers makes you a commercial Driver, here you need a class 2.

Number of passengers has nothing to do with a motor vehicle being commercial or not. If you make money with it, it's commercial.

Even pizza and news paper delivery cars are commercial and require commercial insurance.

Again, what did the lawyer say?

Nat

THIS X 10. Not only are you commercial, you will be interstate commercial transporting passengers. Say hello to DOT. I'm guessing 3 million in liability.

This is going to sound much harsher than I mean it to. We have enough of our own mushheads here spouting off about this global warming and climate change nonsense. We don't need to import more mushheads from Europe to come here and try to run an illegal business trying to dodge our taxes while their expenses traveling our country are paid by this so called nonprofit. Go run your illegal business in Europe and see how far you get. If you want to come here and travel, smoke some pot in Colorado, hit the slopes, donate to your nonprofit, you are more than welcome. If you don't want do it legal, skip the US and go to Canada where they will probably tell you the same thing. Cheers.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #17
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

CC good writing that is correct in my thinking also

And to plan a Ski adventure around a school bus...

can you actually and safely travel the western USA and Canada in a school bus?

I guess carry chains for drives and steers...doesn't sound fun to me
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:48 AM   #18
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

skip the US and go to Canada no no , if that's happens must bring own shovels, snowblowers, snowshoes, firewood, plow trucks, going to have another 10cm of snow today last thing we need is another mushead telling us we will be able to grow our own bananas cause of global warming
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:24 AM   #19
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

What part of no don't they understand, there are at least three different people that have explained that what they are trying to do is illegal, so they post a new topic stating the same thing as before.

Illegal is illegal and cannot be explained away.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:47 PM   #20
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Re: Insurance for 6 months US and 6 months CANADA

First of all, thanks for all the positivity surrounding our questions.
At least we know now it is not going to be easy.
We are looking for answers that can contribute to making our project legal and happen, not the other way around.
Thanks for pointing us into the direction of DOT for example.
We are trying to get answers from lawyers, but that's also not so easy.
Anybody knows if we would start a business in Europe and come over to the US, would that make it legal?
Thanks
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