1959 International - Page 4

cadillackid · 10-14-2018, 11:21 AM

I wouldnt try to tow a full size car trailer with a 345 and likely an allison 540 transmission. the 345 is a workhorse of a gas engine. but isnt real powerful in a bus. you can definitely do some things to upgrade the 345 to put out more power, the Scout guys do find performance parts for them. (these engines were the most popular engines for scouts.. we owned one as a kid, dad beefed it up back then so we could wheel the heck out of our scout), the 392 is definitely more torquey. my 1978 (loadstar superior) has a 392 in it and it pulled HARD in the mountains However it EASILY got the the transmission really hot.. (AT540). a cooler would help, but I would look to finding a better transmission and you may find that bus pulls better. (a spicer stick or stuff an MT643 auto in there. if you can still find the proper adapters and secondary mounts).. the 643 was available in the 392's so housings for SAE2 Should exist, however im sure scarce at this point.

if you are going to get into total drivetrain swaps(say you swapped out the 345 for a DT-466 diesel / allison 643) then I think I would be inclined to put that effort into the 59 vs the 81. for one the WAF (Wifey-Acceptance-Factor) is much higher with the 59, and another is that its a beautioful classic to cruise the country in vs a regular skoolie like an 81 bird. to make a toy hauler out of either bus is going to require effort just because of the added weight of a car trailer and car on top of the weight of an RV conversion.

the 59 will be a whole chassis build.. however what you end up with is a modern built-to-your-needs vehicle.. I have not owned too many pleasure vehicles that I didnt rip apart in pieces and build to my own needs.. it makes for some really nice cruising and travelling when you get done.
-Christopher

magnakansas · 10-14-2018, 11:43 AM

The braking system on your 81 I think is called "Hydromax" it is a bendix/bosch system with an electric motor as a back up.

https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-1335494...boosters-1.jpg

I think, because of the way truck frames are built, 34" wide, as an industry standard, putting new axles under the bus is the easy way to change to bigger brakes. But, it maybe possible to change the hubs and brake mountings an keep the axles. You have to find a good truck salvage yard that will take the time to work with you to do this. With a measuring tap, check the width of spring perches on the axles, and axle ratings in terms of load. with that information go from there.

I will give you an example, 2000 ford f550 and 2006 ford f450. these trucks have different number of wheel bolts, one is 8 the other 10. but the springs are the same distance apart. so I can, If I wanted to, swap axle housings, now, a 20 something international Terrastar uses the same axle housing as a ford 2006 F450 but with different hubs and brakes. So I can put the ford axle under the terra star but will have different brakes, hubs and wheel bolt pattern, but same axle housing. Ford says the axle is good to 11,000lbs, international says good to 14,000 lbs same axle set up, but ford, on paper derated the axle for the f450.

so lots of possibilities, you just have to decide what you want to do. I suggest looking through truck salvage web sites and pick an axle that is common = less expensive. Perhaps look at late 80's uhauls.... many are on international chassis, common, and I bet have the correct spring spacing. many many ways to work.

I think taking the whole bus body off and onto a new frame is much more work than swapping axles/brake system.

I am swapping a 1954 bus body onto a 2005 chassis with a 1995 engine and a 2004 transmission....... I do not have the equipment to swap the body, and have to rely on someone else's shop for the work. Driving me crazy, it has been sitting for three months. the only work that has been done is by me. I have spent a few hours a day getting things done... like take apart the dodge to get the engine ready to come out.... should take an hour to pull the engine now..... taking apart stuff on the ford so that I take the cab, engine, transmission out of the ford so I can use the chassis and brakes from the ford, include the ABS system.

ton of work, but most of the work was research trying to determine what I wanted to use and how to do it the way I wanted.

william

Shannon · 10-14-2018, 03:25 PM

We live in Kentucky. My wife was telling me when she bought it it would pull hills much better then it currently will. I do suspect two cross country trips and countless local may have taken a toll on it.

Ronnie · 10-14-2018, 05:10 PM

Might just be time for a rebuild then. I would check compression first though, just to see how it really is.

You are lucky in some ways you really have a bunch of options. Maybe keep the 81 going long enough to build the dream bus out of the 59.

Kentucky is nice, not too far from here. I have some friends there.

Shannon · 10-14-2018, 05:18 PM

You know when I was younger I wanted away from here so bad, now I’m glad I’m raising my family here. I’ve visited down your way a time or two, very nice part of the country as well.
Yes I’m glad we have a few options and all winter to plan and get things together.

Shannon · 10-14-2018, 05:20 PM

I have owned two 345’s now, the 81 bus and a 79 scout and have never had to tear into one yet. Kind of eager to learn more about them.

Ronnie · 10-14-2018, 05:25 PM

I have had one each of 304 , 345, and now 392. The 345 was a stock rebuild out of a school bus for my dumptruck. The 304 was in the dunptruck and rather tired. Rebuilt it bigger cam, milled the heads, differant ratio rocker arms. Fuel injection on it too, and put it in a 47 dodge truck with an international 1210 pickup chassis. This truck could run... although ear plugs were needed.....

Shannon · 10-14-2018, 06:33 PM

That sounds like a nice setup. Are the 392’s worth the upgrade as far as torque goes? Being how I already have a decent 345?

cadillackid · 10-14-2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I have had one each of 304 , 345, and now 392. The 345 was a stock rebuild out of a school bus for my dumptruck. The 304 was in the dunptruck and rather tired. Rebuilt it bigger cam, milled the heads, differant ratio rocker arms. Fuel injection on it too, and put it in a 47 dodge truck with an international 1210 pickup chassis. This truck could run... although ear plugs were needed.....

does your 392 give a ton of Fan-roar at about 2200 RPM and up? or do you have a clutch fan on it? mine seems ungodly loud but the temp gauge never moves off 1/3 so I guess it works for it.
-Christopher

Ronnie · 10-14-2018, 08:10 PM

Direct drive fan. Seems quiet to me, can actually talk while driving.

Hard to really tell on power because the bus is geared lower(higher cruise speed) and has more wind resistance. So almost seems the same. 47 more cubic inchs over the 345 has to be worth something. I have not had much driving time with the bus, last week was the first short drive, and am waiting for the correct master cylinder to arrive this week. Useing one off a truck that works but is not right. So really do not want to drive it to much until I have the brakes fully sorted out. I hope in time to use it this weekend.

Ronnie · 10-14-2018, 08:11 PM

oops, geared lower then the dump truck 5.14 rear for the bus 5.8 rear for the dump truck

cadillackid · 10-14-2018, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Direct drive fan. Seems quiet to me, can actually talk while driving.

Hard to really tell on power because the bus is geared lower(higher cruise speed) and has more wind resistance. So almost seems the same. 47 more cubic inchs over the 345 has to be worth something. I have not had much driving time with the bus, last week was the first short drive, and am waiting for the correct master cylinder to arrive this week. Useing one off a truck that works but is not right. So really do not want to drive it to much until I have the brakes fully sorted out. I hope in time to use it this weekend.

I guess im spoiled by my red bus Electric fan clutch that stays off most of the time and 1650 RPM on the highway its quite.. other than wind noise like you mention.

-Christopher

magnakansas · 10-14-2018, 08:56 PM

think of it this way... most easy low stress hot rod stuff will get you 1 hp per cubic inch,,, so that is 47 hp with the 392 vs 345. and probably 50ft lbs of torque. Torque is hill climb ability.

think of peak torque as the place where you get the most air/fuel mix into the cylinders. I try to gear, on a gasoline engine, so that peak torque is one gear lower than top gear at or near cruise speed.
so cruise at 2,500 rpm at 65mph in 5th then step down to 4th might be 3,200 rpm and try to cam so that peak torque is a place you can use.

current thinking in a lot fuel mileage is to turn the motor over at as low an rpm as you can at speed. more throttle, when more torque/power is needed, down shift if needed.

there is smaller motor and supercharge, or turbo charge.

william

Tango · 10-14-2018, 09:00 PM

Peak torque at low RPM's is one reason why diesels are more economical.

Ronnie · 10-14-2018, 09:17 PM

stock rating for the 392, as posted inside my glove box is 215 net hp and 235 gross hp at 4000rpm's

I have a service manual that shows 171 net and 185 hp gross at 4400 rpm's for the 345.

PatrickBaptist · 07-23-2019, 06:17 PM

I just scrapped out a 93 Pace Arrow class A RV, 37' with a tag axle, tag and front end were 5 lug while the drive axle (DANA 80) was a 10. The front had some adapter on it.
It was a real stupid setup, how GM thinks it's a good idea to use that wimpy independant suspension is just sad, I scrapped out both a 84 and a 93 both on GM P30/32 platforms and the front ends were the same 5500lb rated.. Garbage. But then again looking at the frame I was just reminded why I don't like GM, they make junk LOL Sorry I can't help it, I know some GMs were good I just never owned a good GM.

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