4WD Conversion

[JustKip]

Research and copy this one!
https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/...0140-00069-115

[magnakansas]

https://kansascity.craigslist.org/pt...909712056.html

william

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by Brain's 97 Diesel

I was originally thinking of buying (again long term project idea) an LMTV M1079A1 Van Truck, especially after following Sean Fillner on YouTube. But the reality of initial cost (they all seem to auction off for $10k or more), tag & title costs before it is converted to MH status, retag and title to MH status, insurance restrictions etc have made me realize that unless one of these trucks in darn near perfect condition falls into my lap it's not gonna happen. Lastly wife not happy with "small camping compartment for long term camping".
So I have moved on to the Skoolie idea. I like the front engine truck looking school bus. I know there are "factory" 4X4 models but they are rare and are way more expensive than I think they should be ($10-20K) and usually 4-10 times the cost of a local 2WD bus ($2-5K). I used to work on automobiles for a living as a PA inspection mechanic and auto body tech (mostly heavy wrecks) for a small family business. Left that industry 15 years ago but still have my tools and equipment.
I've seen 2WD trucks and vans converted to 4WD, I've helped do a few SAS swaps over the years. BUT everything I worked on was of F350 / F450 type or smaller not IH, Freightliner, or F750 and bigger. So I don't know what size rear axel most buses run and what front axel would complement it. (OBS F250 Dana 60 SAS swap for the Dana 50 TTB done, and plenty of info on web for) I think a front Dana 60 would be too small for the weight capacity the 2WD suspension is supposed to handle. Am I right or wrong IDK, but I don't find the information to educate myself on what is needed or how it is done.
The 2 similar vehicle purchase is probably the route Ill take, Like an IH 2WD school bus and a similar sized IH 4WD truck possibly dump truck.
Just spitballing ideas and thoughts.

I can tell you from experience that a LMTV with stock axle ratio is even more dreadful on the interstate than a tired, under-powered skoolie. Also, the LMTV chassis and suspension constantly squeaks and squeals. And if I remember correctly no A/C in the cab. Your wife will not be a happy camper, err co-pilot.

You are on the right track with the IH ideas. Get a cheap International 3700/3800 bus that usually comes with a T444E and Allison AT545. There are a dime a dozen of these around and most people look for more desirable engine/tranny combos.

Then buy this. I am sure they will take less than asking for a non-roadworthy truck. You can sell the service body with bucket and outriggers and put the winch bumper on the skoolie. If the truck cab is free of rust, it will also bring in some money. (I may be interested in it).

While you are building out the interior of the bus, clean the drive train of the truck (87k is just broken in for a DT466), go over the front axle seals and joints, and then swap the whole drive train plus front axle and steering linkage over into the bus.

You will need to modify the firewall of the bus for the longer DT466 with the small doghouse that you can cut out of the truck. Electronics and harness for engine and tranny also swap over into the bus, which would be a good opportunity to get rid of the usual school bus rats nest. You need the boxes and wires to keep the engine running and the tranny shifting. Your brain is there for keeping the doors closed while driving.

The mechanical swap is straight forward if you have the space, a fork lift or similar powered lifting device, big jacks, big wrenches, a magnetic drill to add mounting holes to the bus frame, and a place who can modify and balance the rear driveshaft.

The frames of both vehicles are two straight C channels and the only difference is the total length and location of the bolt holes for cross-members, mounts, and spring hangers. Measuring the truck frame will tell you where holes will be needed in the bus frame to bolt on the truck components. It does not get any easier than that.

If the axle ratios of bus and truck are the same you can leave the rear of the bus alone. Otherwise, swap the gear carrier or the entire axle, whatever is easier.

The end result will be a lot of living space on a 4x4 chassis with one of the most desirable engine and tranny combos. Not totally cheap, not quick, but definitely doable.

I do not need such a long bus that is still not tall enough for me and have already too many projects going but just writing about it I am itching to do this conversion myself. Just to prove the point and to have a one of a kind, kick butt rig.

PM me if you go that route. I am frequently in your area.

[Brain's 97 Diesel]

I saw this on local CL https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...932774288.html and I was thinking this would make the perfect parts truck for one of the half dozen of so International 3800 School Buses that are on my local Facebook marketplace. The 3800 is the "short" full size bus, what is the next size up from that model #? Seems like 3800 have 6-8 windows on passenger side, then it jumps to 11-15 windows for next size up? I know some go by passenger count, but that can differ because of handicap accessibility built into the bus (like a lift or where its located).

[PatrickBaptist]

Originally Posted by Brain's 97 Diesel

I was originally thinking of buying (again long term project idea) an LMTV M1079A1 Van Truck, especially after following Sean Fillner on YouTube. But the reality of initial cost (they all seem to auction off for $10k or more), tag & title costs before it is converted to MH status, retag and title to MH status, insurance restrictions etc have made me realize that unless one of these trucks in darn near perfect condition falls into my lap it's not gonna happen. Lastly wife not happy with "small camping compartment for long term camping".
So I have moved on to the Skoolie idea. I like the front engine truck looking school bus. I know there are "factory" 4X4 models but they are rare and are way more expensive than I think they should be ($10-20K) and usually 4-10 times the cost of a local 2WD bus ($2-5K). I used to work on automobiles for a living as a PA inspection mechanic and auto body tech (mostly heavy wrecks) for a small family business. Left that industry 15 years ago but still have my tools and equipment.
I've seen 2WD trucks and vans converted to 4WD, I've helped do a few SAS swaps over the years. BUT everything I worked on was of F350 / F450 type or smaller not IH, Freightliner, or F750 and bigger. So I don't know what size rear axel most buses run and what front axel would complement it. (OBS F250 Dana 60 SAS swap for the Dana 50 TTB done, and plenty of info on web for) I think a front Dana 60 would be too small for the weight capacity the 2WD suspension is supposed to handle. Am I right or wrong IDK, but I don't find the information to educate myself on what is needed or how it is done.
The 2 similar vehicle purchase is probably the route Ill take, Like an IH 2WD school bus and a similar sized IH 4WD truck possibly dump truck.
Just spitballing ideas and thoughts.

DANA 80s are good for 10k typically, anything smaller will make you sorry you did. I've done 4x4 conversions on Fseries and rangers.
Depending on the size and how much weight you are toting on the front I'd still say a D80 is going to be too small, after all that is what they put under 1 ton trucks and those are light duty a bus is med duty. I'd find a front end out of a dump truck or something of that nature for a bus, or a duce but then you have the fun of having to match gearing which could be the worst pain especially if you have to swap rings.

[john61ct]

Surplus forestry trucks, pole units or just chipper bodies are very strong and often low miles.

[Brain's 97 Diesel]

It seems (and I could be wrong) that most full size long busses have a GVWR of around 30K# with a Front GAWR around 10K# and a Rear GAWR of around 20K#. So I am figuring front steering drive axel needs to be rated for 10K# MIN. I also figure that if I go with a donor vehicle that I will (more than likely) be grabbing both the front and rear axels from the donor.

Keep shooting me your thoughts and ideas. I'm still in the thinking stage of this project. (I'm currently recovering from double knee replacement so the next few weeks are research time.)

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by Brain's 97 Diesel

It seems (and I could be wrong) that most full size long busses have a GVWR of around 30K# with a Front GAWR around 10K# and a Rear GAWR of around 20K#. So I am figuring front steering drive axel needs to be rated for 10K# MIN. I also figure that if I go with a donor vehicle that I will (more than likely) be grabbing both the front and rear axels from the donor.

Keep shooting me your thoughts and ideas. I'm still in the thinking stage of this project. (I'm currently recovering from double knee replacement so the next few weeks are research time.)

Compared to getting a human suspension rebuilt, swapping two axles is a breeze.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.

[Brain's 97 Diesel]

Thanks on the recovery, which is going well.

Searching the web for hours on end and getting no where except more confused. Looked at a few axel company websites, funny how they list the axels they have but no info on the axels weight capacity or what it fits. IMO its like "Hey buddy, need an axel? Yeah we have axels. See here are our axels. What you need info, WHY? Take out your axel and put ours in, trust me it will work." I know its not but feels like a slimy used car dealer or junk yard.

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by Brain's 97 Diesel

Thanks on the recovery, which is going well.

Searching the web for hours on end and getting no where except more confused. Looked at a few axel company websites, funny how they list the axels they have but no info on the axels weight capacity or what it fits. IMO its like "Hey buddy, need an axel? Yeah we have axels. See here are our axels. What you need info, WHY? Take out your axel and put ours in, trust me it will work." I know its not but feels like a slimy used car dealer or junk yard.

If you want to assemble the 4x4 drivetain from individually purchased components you need a lot of research, patience, and sense of humor. Going with a compatible 4x4 donor vehicle will answer all the questions about fit and compatibility. It will require a bigger initial investment but after selling the unneeded parts from the donor you will get the 4x4 stuff for less. I often got stuff from donor vehicles for free after selling the rest.

[deoc4114]

Originally Posted by Brain's 97 Diesel

Thanks on the recovery, which is going well.

Searching the web for hours on end and getting no where except more confused. Looked at a few axel company websites, funny how they list the axels they have but no info on the axels weight capacity or what it fits. IMO its like "Hey buddy, need an axel? Yeah we have axels. See here are our axels. What you need info, WHY? Take out your axel and put ours in, trust me it will work." I know its not but feels like a slimy used car dealer or junk yard.

Axletech and Meritor (same company now) seem to do a decent job of listing capacities and limitations if their axles.

For something a little different you can look at EZ Trac hydraulic awd. It's a bit harder to find ratings, but they're out there.

[Sehnsucht]

To be fair though, vehicle weight capacities are not exclusively a function of the axles and these manufacturers are not marketing their products to a consumer audience. When a large vehicle manufacturer approaches them about a new or modified model, the specs are more granular because a professional vehicle designer is going to incorporate these specs into an overall design which includes the suspension, frame, and powertrain capabilities to develop what will end up being the final vehicle's vehicle weight rating. On their own most axle housings are more capable than the vehicle they end up in yet if they don't need to push that threshold they can substitute lower capacity internals to reduce weight and cost for the final assembly.

[Ronnie]

I do have to agree that a donor vehicle is going to be the best way to go.

Another option is a locking rear diff. This is what I have. When you think about it 4 wheel drive is really one front and one rear whichever has the least traction. A locking diff gives both rear power no matter what. An off camber situation gets a 4 wheel drive stuck rather easy as opposing wheels spin hopelessly. Not so with a locking rear. Of course the ultimate is 4 wheel drive with locking diff on both axles, then you have real 4 wheel drive.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I do have to agree that a donor vehicle is going to be the best way to go.

Another option is a locking rear diff. This is what I have. When you think about it 4 wheel drive is really one front and one rear whichever has the least traction. A locking diff gives both rear power no matter what. An off camber situation gets a 4 wheel drive stuck rather easy as opposing wheels spin hopelessly. Not so with a locking rear. Of course the ultimate is 4 wheel drive with locking diff on both axles, then you have real 4 wheel drive.

a real 4 wheel drive that wont turn corners when both diffs are locked up - lol - make a good rock climber though - having a locking rear diff on a 4 x 4 does make a huge difference at times

[PatrickBaptist]

I wanna build the first RE 4x4 now that would be a tough road to hoe. LOL
Dream on.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

a real 4 wheel drive that wont turn corners when both diffs are locked up - lol - make a good rock climber though - having a locking rear diff on a 4 x 4 does make a huge difference at times

Hey we need someone to do a rock climbing skoolie

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Hey we need someone to do a rock climbing skoolie

.................................. lol

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Hey we need someone to do a rock climbing skoolie

like this maybe

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

like this maybe

Yes! Like that

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Yes! Like that

....................................