Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-21-2004, 07:26 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
WOO HOO!! WOO HOO!!!



WOO HOO!! WOO HOO!!

I broke 30 mpg and left it by the wayside!!!





I started the day with about 8.5 gallons in the tank, and I have about 3 or 3.5 left, meaning I used either 5 or 5.5 gallons to go 185 miles.

If I used 5.5 gallons, I got 33.63 mpg!!!

If I used 5 gallons, I got 37 mpg!!!!!!!

I made one Special Modification under the hood last night that cost me just under $10.00 and one hour of work.

One of the components of the Special Modification is America's, nay, the world's, favorite home repair item, and the other is something you see by the hundreds in mall parking lots every day during the summer!

I think this would possibly be applicable to busses, too. I'm not that familiar with what things are like under the hood of a bus (gas or diesel), but it might help.

Anybody wanna guess?
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2004, 07:39 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
Somebody please give it a shot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stego
It made me wonder how much power and speed you are losing from adding basement storage compartments to the bus!

This is just a WAG, but semi-informed. I would think because the bottoms of the storage is not only lower to the road surface, but flat and relatively smooth that they should aid in reducing the drag. It's really all the projecting brackets, tanks, cross members and such that disrupt the air flow.
They would certainly give you a good start -- a good surface to build off of if you were going to cover the rest of the underside. I think though that a good air dam in front would be a more useful step. It would required far less material, and it blocks most of the air from going under the bus to begin with. Possibly some side air dams would be worthwhile, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stego
Hmmm.....I wonder how aero I can make my 66 GMC/Wayne ?

Snickering over that thought -

Stego
Don't laugh! If you drive much at highway speeds, I bet a sheet of plywood, three 8 foot 2x4s, and some plastic lawn edging from Wal-Mart would increase your fuel economy by 10%, and a 15% increase is not unlikely. It doesn't even have to *look* aerodynamic. The thing on the front of my J**p looks like some redneck bolted a plywood packing crate on the vehicle.....but it *works*.

It'll take you one Saturday or maybe a couple of evenings to measure, design, build, and paint the thing, but you will *very* likely get a 10% increase at highway speeds. Just one long weekend trip could pay for the air dam at today's prices.

Then when people say, "how can you afford to put gas in that monster?", you can laugh and say, "well, it has special aerodynamic devices that make the cost more bearable."
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 03:23 PM   #13
Bus Crazy
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 1,838
Send a message via AIM to Steve
So I was thinking about making the underbody smooth the other day and I think a good cheap way to do it would be to use the $5/sheet foam insualtion that I have been using lately.

I think if I find a good adheasive (such as a strong liquid nails) that bonds to this foam and metal, used a few srews or bolts and went around the edges with some 200mph or high quality duct tape it would hold very good.

It would help insulate the floor in the winter, keep down road noise, AND hopefully improve gas mileage by creating a smooth surface, not to mention protect the underbody from dirt, salt, and debris.

I figure I can run a line of sheets on each side of the drive sheet, probably only needing six-eight sheets ($30-$40) total.
__________________
View my 1972 Ward: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1986 Blue Bird: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1960 GMC: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2004, 04:35 PM   #14
Almost There
 
abdabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 73
Year: 1984
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: orig.327, now 429
Rated Cap: 66
Send a message via ICQ to abdabbs Send a message via AIM to abdabbs
...no one has posted any pictures of anything they have tried. I would sure like to see what kinda ideas are brewing or just even a photoshop mock up so I can see what youre talking bout.

TonyC in Iowa
abdabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 09:36 AM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
bewofthe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: south glens falls ny
Posts: 14
Coachwork: Bluebird
Engine: Detroit Diesel
Send a message via AIM to bewofthe
Quote:
Originally Posted by abdabbs
...no one has posted any pictures of anything they have tried. I would sure like to see what kinda ideas are brewing or just even a photoshop mock up so I can see what youre talking bout.

TonyC in Iowa
yes PLEASE. i need visual aids
__________________
War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate.
bewofthe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 03:33 AM   #16
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
Okay, here's a picture.

Well, it's not a skoolie, but please don't kick me out of the group....

http://www.skoolie.net/gallery2/Air-Dam-Design

It's also not a real picture, but a mock-up that resembles (very exactly) the real thing.

First I built a 2x2 ladder structure that was as wide as the front bumper. Then I sized a piece of 3/8" plywood to cover the ladder structure and extend above it by the height of the bumper at the top. Then I bolted hte ladder structure to the bottom of the bumper.



The most important dimension in this design is the distance from the hard structure (plywood) at the bottom of the airdam to the ground: 8".

The little yellow strip at the bottom of the bumper is a strip of plastic lawn edging ($10.00 for 25 feet at Wal-Mart) that is screwed to the bottom of the frame of the airdam, and then painted. This is stiff enough to stay vertical at highway speeds, but flexible enough that I don't have to worry about ripping the airdam off if I run into an extra high curb while parking or an steep approach to a driveway.

I think you could probably just bolt a sheet of 3/4" plywood directly to the front bumper of a bus instead of building the frame that I describe. I think 3/4" ply would be stiff enough not to need any framing. If it turned out to have some flex....bolt on another 3/4" thickness! It's not as if the bus will notice the weight!
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2004, 10:36 PM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 31
aeodynamics

Hi,

I'm new but have been following skoolie.net for several months. Of particular interest to me is the discussion about aerodynamics. I followed one of the links which mentioned that there was a significant loss of mileage above 60 mph. The question I have is this: Are the losses mentioned for cars (I think this article was about cars) the same as a brick-shaped school bus? I am a rider of recumbent bicyles. My fastest bike is a Reynolds T-Bone which puts me, the rider, in a very laid-back position. The frontal area of this bike is about as small as it is going to get for a bike. As a result, the bike is very, very fast. And, we usually don't cruise faster than 19 mph or somewhere in that range. It isn't that I am an aging Lance Armstrong--it is the aerodynamics. Now, there is a lot more similarity between a Jeep and a dog-nosed bus than my bike; but, I suspect that aerodynamics come into play a lower speeds than 60 mph.

Here is what I am hoping to do--time permitting. I still have the extra seats that I pulled out. I want to put all the tanks and so on in place on the bottom of the bus. I will then cut the backs off of the seats. Then I want to mount the bottom portion of the seat up-side-down so that I have a frame-work to mount treated plywood on. With a little shimming with 2 x 4's I think I can have a fairly smooth belly pan. I also want to make an air dam out of conveyor belt material.

Herb in Utah

TC2000 Blue Bird--Flat nose!
Skoolie BOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2004, 10:20 AM   #18
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
Aerodynamic Drag Losses for Cars vs. Brick Walls

Here are some CD (coefficient of drag) numbers for cars and for large vehicles:

http://aerodyn.org/Drag/tables.html#cars

Vehicle CD CD x Area (Meters squared)

VW Polo (class A) 0.37 0.636
Ford Escort (class B) 0.36 0.662
Open Vectra (class C) 0.29 0.547
BMW 520i (class D) 0.31 0.649
Mercedes 300SE (class E) 0.36 0.785

Sports Car 0.3 -0.4
Ecomony Car 0.4 -0.5
Pickup Truck 0.5
Tractor-Trailer, with fairings 0.6-0.7
Tractor-Trailer 0.7-0.9
Trailer alone 0.9

The table did not extend the CD for trucks, etc., to the CD x Area, but you can estimate that the frontal area of a bus is 9 feet by 8 feet or about 7 meters squared (1 meter squared = approx 10 square feet.) If a bus has the CD of a Tractor-Trailer, 0.7-0.9, then the CD x Area would be around 4.9 to 6.3, or something like 6 to 8 times that of a Mercedes 300SE.

I can't cite the source, but I do recall reading that below speeds of 45 to 50 mph wind resistance is not a significant factor in energy consumption in motor vehicles ; however, I've done enough cycling to know that in human powered vehicles even the difference between wearing tightly fitted clothes or rain gear while cycling makes a significant difference in energy consumption at cycling speeds. I think that the larger the frontal area, as with a bus, the more impact drag has on the vehicle from 45 to 50 mph up.

A bit more than a third of that drag comes from the air flowing under the bus, so excluding that air has a big impact on the drag. I think that an air dam and sidewalls would have as much impact as sheeting over the bottom of the bus, and sidewalls would be much easier to construct out of a flexible material (conveyer belting) than it would be to bolt a bunch of plywood and frames beneath the bus. I have considered under belly skins, but one problem that I forsee with them is moisture accumulation (and road gunk). Sidewalls would keep air from going under the bus, but would not accumulate any moisture.

If you really wanted to get fancy, you could mount the sidewalls so that they could be raised or lowered with pnematic cylinders, hinged at the bottom of the sheet metal so that they would tuck up flat under the bus when not in use, but swing down once you got on the highway.
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2005, 12:59 PM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Winnemucca, NV/Reno NV
Posts: 176
Year: 1980
Coachwork: Gillig 1980, 2003 Thomas E-350 shorty
Chassis: 636/E350
Engine: Cat 3208 NA/7.3
Rated Cap: 78
Now that the experimentation has been done, I think a trip to Pick n Pull is in order. My Chevy pick-up has an air dam with quick release fittings for off-roading. Even has fog lights built in!! Should be very easy to adapt to a variety of vehicles, and look good too! Once I get my conversion done, an air dam will definately be on my list.
Your newest member (since yesterdsay!), Elkoskoolie, 1990 Chevy/Carpenter/8.2l Detroit/Allison Auto
__________________
If it isn't grown, it has to be mined
http://weathersticker.wunderground.c...Winnemucca.gif
elkoskoolie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2006, 05:53 PM   #20
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah.
Posts: 4
Hello, i'm Augie in Salt Lake City. all new to this forum and been listening in{well reading anyway}on this is very interesting subject. I was thinking of a spoiler under the front bumper would help? something like the old locomotives used! Well just a thought, and this site has been so very helpful to me on ideas to my up-comeing work on my school bus...
Thanks to you all.
__________________
Looking for general ideas on a coversion on 85 BlueBird INTERNATIONAL 66 pass, school Bus. Thanks Augster59.
Augster59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idea to increase living space josetann Conversion General Discussions 7 03-22-2010 09:50 PM
Increase throttle on DT466? josetann International | Navistar Drivetrain 4 06-20-2009 08:21 PM
Aerodynamics of BIG vehicles (resources) TygerCub Conversion General Discussions 2 05-12-2009 11:49 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.