Diesel engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific RPM. By simply lowering the RPM, you might be bypassing that "sweet spot" that the engine likes. I remember when the speed limit was set at 55 MPH, and all the truckers lost fuel mileage due to losing their sweet spot. Lower RPM does not guarantee better mileage. It just means more available top speed.
I had some issues with getting the right combination of operating system and driver and application... but after enough tries I've got it all working in a virtual machine.
Will the adapter that you have work with Bluefire or Silverleaf?
I would like to get the 6th unlock done but don't want to have to buy two J1708 adapters.
Diesel engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific RPM. By simply lowering the RPM, you might be bypassing that "sweet spot" that the engine likes. I remember when the speed limit was set at 55 MPH, and all the truckers lost fuel mileage due to losing their sweet spot. Lower RPM does not guarantee better mileage. It just means more available top speed.
Is there a better way to find this sweet spot instead of burning a lot of fuel in trial and error?
No one is mentioning if they are running with the "mode" button on or not. We just completed a 1,000 mile Gulf Coast trip with a 40' Thomas, 3126 and 5.67 gears. I ran the mode button the whole trip, when possible on interstates I ran 75+ and when all was said and done and filled up at home and averaged the two fuel buys we got 8.927 MPG. I think if I paid attention and lightened up on the right foot a little an even 9.00 is possible. The "mode" button is economy mode and the 3060 upshifts a little sooner and downshifts a little later, in theory keeping the RPMs slightly lower for better fuel economy.
I usually use the economy mode, though on my runs it wouldn't have made much difference since there's only a few stop lights anyway. It made more of a difference before the unlock as the transmission was used to indiscriminate, foot to the floor driving. As part of the unlock, the shift point adaptions were reset and now it better matches my more lax driving style. Shifts so much smoother too.
When I press my mode button it just turns it to manual. I see no other options. Sometimes I press mode for manual going down long hills. Wasn't aware of any other use for it.
Diesel engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific RPM. By simply lowering the RPM, you might be bypassing that "sweet spot" that the engine likes. I remember when the speed limit was set at 55 MPH, and all the truckers lost fuel mileage due to losing their sweet spot. Lower RPM does not guarantee better mileage. It just means more available top speed.
This.
Lowering rpm should theoretically gain you mileage. But occasionally that gain will be so small it's negligible. Especially if 6th lowers your rpm too much.
My route is from the Sunco at Washington Dulles International Airport onto Route 28 south to Interstate 66 west. Take Interstate 66 to Interstate 81 north. Interstate 81 to Route 7 east. Route 7 to Route 28 south. Then jump off at Washington Dulles and refill at the same pump.
I know all those roads, some really well despite being born and raised in Silver Spring. I do not miss them one little teensy bit, no sirree!
__________________
I do not suffer from mental illness. I enjoy every damn minute of it!
When I press my mode button it just turns it to manual. I see no other options. Sometimes I press mode for manual going down long hills. Wasn't aware of any other use for it.
The function of the mode button is programmable for different functions. I can't remember what the other options are at the moment. Getting old sucks I have never seen one with any function other than economy but have read about them in Allison documentation.
Question about communicating with TCM to unlock 6th gear. Family friend works for Allison Transmission. He's been out twice to try and unlock my sixth gear on my 2001 Amtran International DT466/Allison MD3060 skoolie. Using the round Deutsche connector under the drivers seat, he's tried numerous times to communicate with the TCM. No connection. Tried the connector in the engine compartment, no luck. Spoke to several 40+ year veterans at Allison, but can't communicate with the TCM. Any suggestions? Bus runs and drives great, so clearly working. Thinking the connector or wiring is bad. I'm not too technical here, but happy to provide more info. This guy calibrates Allison transmissions for a living, but we are stumped.
Lowering rpm should theoretically gain you mileage. But occasionally that gain will be so small it's negligible. Especially if 6th lowers your rpm too much.
But the end result is that 7-9 mpg is about what you should expect to achieve.
my Allison 545 to Allison 1000 (6 speed) install netted me a whole lot of fuel economy gain.. HOWEVER when I first programmed the transmission to get into 6th gear as soon as possible I LOST fuel economy over my program which ran 6th gear completely disabled.. (5th only).. my best MPG currently is allowing my 6th gear to operate during lighter throttle conditions and only over 62 MPH.. my 0 throttle shift-Up to 6th is 63.. my Cruise control operates 6th gear at light load conditions and pulls it out when the cruise drips to 2 below setpoint or engine load reaches 75%..
my bus is geared Too Tall (the opposite of what most skoolies have here)... its important to know when and when not to use it.. the MD3060 has the capability of running 6th or turning it off at your will with the up / down arrow buttons..
know when to use it and when not.. also I will say in Navistar-Land that updating the ECM calibration helps transmission shifting in the E engines.. installing a newer ECM that has a full program update greatly helps the transmission and engine to pick the right gear for the job..
my year 2000 ECM with the original calibration was terrible with the allison 1000.. when I ran it through NavKal(NavKal is the software I subscribe to which allows downloads of programs from Navistar's dealer Cloud network.. yes its expensive.. yes its worth it to me).. it updated the calibration and the base firmware... my shift optimization got better.. when I bought a used year 2004 ECM and loaded my VIN / engine serial number and ran it through NavKal so it had the correct info for my Bus, my shift opimization got to a near perfect state.. in effect navistar had improved their end of things as well.. the ECM I purchased was the current replacement-part number as indicated to me by the navistar dealer.. the original part number had been discontinued and superceded by the new one.. there were things in the newer ECM that didnt get updated by just running it through NavKal.
that said, i still need to gear down from 3.54 to 4.10 to really have the perfect setup in my bus..
** Most diesels like to live a few hundred (500-700) below their governed RPM **
if your computer tells you your engine load factor, its best to run it at 75% or below except when climbing inclines..
I mention all this as lugging down a diesel will result in just as bad of fuel economy as spinning it too fast.. learn your engine.. if you unlocked 6th gear to gain speed because you are running against your RPM governor.. you will gain that speed but will gain no MPG (probably lose it)..
if you enabled 6th so that you can drive the same speed but run the RPMs a few hundred below RPM governor you'll likely gain a good amount of MPGs..
if you enabled 6th when your engine was running already in the "sweet spot" you may very well lose MPGs as you could be lugging the engine in all but perfect conditions..
if your engine sounds and feels Labored it probably is..
the up / down arrow buttons on your shift pad are your friend.. just like driving a stick-shift, pick the right gear for your weight / terrain / WIND-CONDITIONS / speed
** Most diesels like to live a few hundred (500-700) below their governed RPM **
if your computer tells you your engine load factor, its best to run it at 75% or below except when climbing inclines..
I mention all this as lugging down a diesel will result in just as bad of fuel economy as spinning it too fast.. learn your engine.. if you unlocked 6th gear to gain speed because you are running against your RPM governor.. you will gain that speed but will gain no MPG (probably lose it)..
if you enabled 6th so that you can drive the same speed but run the RPMs a few hundred below RPM governor you'll likely gain a good amount of MPGs..
if you enabled 6th when your engine was running already in the "sweet spot" you may very well lose MPGs as you could be lugging the engine in all but perfect conditions..
if your engine sounds and feels Labored it probably is..
the up / down arrow buttons on your shift pad are your friend.. just like driving a stick-shift, pick the right gear for your weight / terrain / WIND-CONDITIONS / speed
-Christopher
Everything you said is 100%. 6th only helps if you're not in the "sweet spot" already. If you're already there, 6th won't do much, and can actually hurt.
What rpm are you at if you were running 55mph?
Christopher, if you're so inclined, I'd suggest that you consider a turbo upgrade in your future on your redbyrd bus. I'm finding more and more that diesel engine efficiency is heavily tied to turbo efficiency. Which makes sense because most of the power that your modern diesel engine can achieve is based off the additional air provided by the turbo.
And turbos have advanced light years in design in the last 20 years. Even just a wheel upgrade on your current compressor can net you a more efficient engine.
Navistar also declined my ‘96 IH 4900 based on age. The dealer is (almost) irrelevant, it’s all up to Navistar (or Thomas, or BB...); if the manufacturer won’t give approval Allison won’t budge. Period. If your TCM is WTEC2 or older an outside company can’t do it. WTEC3 and newer they can work with but it seems it costs >$800. Another option for the WTEC2 (like mine) is to find a TCM with 6 speed programming, but it will have to be for the same style tranny (I.e.—my md3060 has a PTO) and similar engine (electronic control vs mechanical, similar rpm limit).
This is a possible loophole: Allison will reprogram TCMs to an OEM spec, so we could take in a TCM and have it reprogrammed to match another TCM with 6 speed programming, as long as we had the numbers off the 6 speed one (and it would need to be compatible with our tranny and engine, as stated above). Allison doesn’t need OEM approval if it’s already an OEM number. I’m still looking for the right TCM...
Your 100% right and the way to do this is create a library of photos from users here of current TCM pics. If you find a guy that has the match to what you are needing, you can take that photo of the TCM to your dealer and they will upload it to your TCM. My only question is and this is directed to you, how do you tell a PTO calibration from one with or without by the numbers?
Your 100% right and the way to do this is create a library of photos from users here of current TCM pics. If you find a guy that has the match to what you are needing, you can take that photo of the TCM to your dealer and they will upload it to your TCM. My only question is and this is directed to you, how do you tell a PTO calibration from one with or without by the numbers?
A library of TCM pics (covering a variety of years, rpm ranges, engines, etc) would be fantastic! This could produce the least expensive option (~$120-200) for people to unlock 6. It cost me ~$130, as I recall. Somewhere on this huge thread are pictures of my old and new TCM/CIN’s.
As to your question about identifying a CIN with/without PTO— I’m not sure. Knowing what the donor truck was and how it was used would work. Otherwise, Allison- or someone with Allison diagnostic software (like Cad kid) should be able to look up the specifics of any CIN provided.
I took a chance and had my TCM reprogrammed with a CIN from a 2 year older TCM from an unknown truck/engine. I was willing to try based on both having identical rpm limits and both using Throttle Position Sensors (TPS- used with mechanically controlled fuel injection, as opposed to electronically controlled).
The calibration report I received from Allison revealed some of the history of the donor CIN— it was from a Ford L8000 with a Cummins C engine (presumably an 8.3 liter, as the 5.9 would likely have a rev limit higher than 2300 rpm). The Occupational Calibration was for “refuse vehicle-severe landfill, or plow”. My truck uses a PTO to run a generator, the donor truck presumably used the PTO for hydraulics.
The Allison tech did need to update the older software to work, but he could and did. And it works! In certain circumstances I do wish it would upshift and downshift sooner, but this was true with my previous calibration as well.
Also, I’ve done some tweaking of my fuel injection pump (free mods, other than time) to get more power. My DT466 250hp engine 5.38 gear would struggle with hills without the extra power. As loaded my truck weighs 23k. With the extra power it does fine.
Is your fuel injection mechanically or electronically controlled?
This is my TCM. It still has the original 5-sp CIN sticker and info. The large font CIN is the new 6-sp CIN. It was adapted from the TCM in the following picture. NOTE: I was given a completely new CIN as the donor 6-sp was an older Software level (TCM dated 4/14/1993). They updated it to my equipment’s level (TCM dated 4/3/1995). Note how the older CIN begins with 07 whereas both newer ones begin with 08. More information on this is on the Allison reference page that shows WTEC 2&3 build dates, numbers and compatibility.
This is the data printout that came with my new CIN. It shows some of the items and parameters included in the programming. Most of this is pretty foreign to me, but ask lots of good questions anyway! Perhaps more knowledgeable persons here can help.
I just tried looking at these attachments online. The pics are much clearer if you hold on them and choose “open in a new tab”. Perhaps someone knows a better/easier way??
Thank you. I know I pulled a thread up from the past, but it's been a big help. I actually found your thread on the IRV forum where you originally posted pics of your ECU and transmission. Funny thing is my Allison dealer litterly just your your CIN into my ECU this afternoon and I am going to try it out tomorrow morning when I take it back to my mechanic.
Here is my story:
I bought a a 1999 International 4700 466E from a towing company in the USA ( I am in Western Canada ) I twas sold as a Allison automatic, actually claimed to be a 3000RDS. When we went to view it, he told me it was a conversion from a wrecked bus that they received. Im not actually sure if this was true. In driving it, the speedo did not work, and it shifted weird, ( delayed so to speak ) All of our other trucks have Allisons as well and it simply felt like a input speed sensor had failed. So I bought it, It was a good deal so I can not complain. But it was literly hacked together. We are trying to figure it out and work the bugs out. If I can not then a Eaton 6610 10sp is going in it.
Where we are now:
Identified it is a 3060P transmission, not a 3000RDS. The ECU they used ( unknown engine) has a rev of 2500 rpm. this is to high for the 466 so that is the delayed shift. After searching and searching. I found a another member here who shared his Cin # with me from a 1999 466E with the 3060 transmission, But my allusion dealer says that's actually a WTEC 3 controller and not the 2. So my problem is that I have a WTEC 2 ECU/transmission but I have a 1999 4700 with the electronic throttle hence why we could not use his but could use yours. He was going to try to change the protocol for throttle from TPS ( yours ) to "auto detect" like the other 99 but not sure if he was able to do it or not, we shall see. We really should start a FB group for this library thing would be easier to communicate with everyone.
I have never seen one with any function other than economy but have read about them in Allison documentation. 
Linear Mode
