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Old 05-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #21
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Good luck man! I know this is a tricky process for a lot of people.

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rensch26 View Post
I got a response from Navistar. They instructed me to start the process at any International dealer. They will submit an iRequest for sixth gear approval in the Navistar service portal. I'm not positive you'd even need to bring your bus in, probably just need to provide the VIN and maybe the transmission serial number.
I wish I could get a reply as fast! When they send the letter to Allison they'll need to have very detailed info, such as tire size and speed rating, VIN, trans serial number, and rear end ratio. You'll also have to have that last page of the PDF signed to release them from liability. Wish I could sign that page and assume all liability so they would just unlock without any other steps!
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:04 AM   #23
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That 3rd page seems to be a pretty bulletproof "hold harmless" document. If the owner were to sign and submit that, a good case could be made that the OEM would have no plausible reason to deny approval. Of course, the law and common sense have nothing to do with each other.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
That 3rd page seems to be a pretty bulletproof "hold harmless" document. If the owner were to sign and submit that, a good case could be made that the OEM would have no plausible reason to deny approval. Of course, the law and common sense have nothing to do with each other.
I agree with this. Everyone agrees with it except Allison, and we are stuck with what they demand we do.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:25 AM   #25
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On a closely related topic, did the John Deere software lawsuit ever resolve?
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:07 PM   #26
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Part of the problem of unlocking the 6th gear is the final rear gearing.

The Allison transmissions have a limitation of how many RPM's the output shaft can turn. Oddly, the 2000 series can turn faster than the 3000 series. I don't recall what the top speed is for either transmission but I do remember the 2000 can turn more than 25% faster than the 3000.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:00 PM   #27
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the 1000s.. which are essentially the same as 2000's have an even taller final drive in 6th.. (.61). are used on the chevy duramaxx pickups which are designed to rev over 3400 RPM.. almost none of our school bus engines are designed to go much higher than that so seems that wouldnt be an issue on a 2000 as its final drive is .65
-Christopher
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #28
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No luck with Blue Bird

Apparently anyone with a Blue Bird should forget about trying to get in contact with them over this issue. If the receptionist answers, the next person won't and you won't get a return call. No response from their contact form on the website either.

Contacted my local Allison shop again and they told me to get in touch with my local Blue Bird dealer and that they would be able to get in contact with corporate. First question out of the dealer's mouth was "front engine or rear engine?" Sounds like if you're rear engine it's a possibility, but they absolutely will not unlock 6th for a front engine bus.

Reasoning is the long driveline. They're concerned that the drive shaft will come apart at higher speeds that would be capable with 6th. Tires also play a major role. Very few are rated for speeds above 75mph. Even if you restrict the bus through the Engine ECM to a safe speed they won't do it because it's too easy to have that restriction removed afterward.

There is one last option though, and I saw one other person had success with it though I can't remember who. You can email the programmer at pcmperformance.com with your TCM model type, and CIN or ASSY number and they will custom map a new TCM and send it to you. This is a much more expensive option from what I can tell.

I still want to get the price quote, but have no idea where my TCM is located. Anybody know where it would be on a 2004 International 3800 Blue Bird?
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:53 PM   #29
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The TCM for my MD3060 in a Thomas RE is behind the dash panel.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rensch26 View Post
I got a response from Navistar. They instructed me to start the process at any International dealer. They will submit an iRequest for sixth gear approval in the Navistar service portal. I'm not positive you'd even need to bring your bus in, probably just need to provide the VIN and maybe the transmission serial number.
Well I got a phone call from the International dealer I submitted the iRequest through. Navistar basically told them that they could not unlock the 6th gear on my bus because it is too old. They don't have the ability or the software to do something like this on a bus as old as mine. That makes zero sense to me because International would have nothing to do with the software part of getting this gear unlocked. Almost sounds like to me they just don't want to give approval for something like this on a bus that rolled out of their factory a couple decades ago.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:55 PM   #31
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Please do. We need info on Blue Bird because I've yet to see an example where BB have cooperated.

Getting them to respond would be useful info for a lot of people.
Several years ago -- shortly after I bought my current bus, so it must have been around 2013 -- I managed to make phone contact with a man at Blue Bird corporate in some customer service role who said he had previously worked in their powertrain engineering department. In a subsequent phone call, after he'd done some research, he indicated that no powertrain package (engine, transmission, axle gear ratio) had been engineered by them with a 6-speed configuration in the transmission. Because they had not engineered that combination, he said, they would not issue any approval letter.

I wonder: how much would it cost to pay Blue Bird to do that engineering analysis? Supposing they're a US$200/hr kind of shop, could it be done in a week (40 hours, US$8000)? If, say, 16 of us Blue Bird owners were willing to put $500 in the pot we could commission a project at that level (if they'd accept the work).
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:17 PM   #32
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That sucks! Crazy how complicated this really is. I have not even tried to contact Blue Bird yet regarding my tranny. Seems like Thomas is the only one that will play ball.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rensch26 View Post
Well I got a phone call from the International dealer I submitted the iRequest through. Navistar basically told them that they could not unlock the 6th gear on my bus because it is too old. They don't have the ability or the software to do something like this on a bus as old as mine. That makes zero sense to me because International would have nothing to do with the software part of getting this gear unlocked. Almost sounds like to me they just don't want to give approval for something like this on a bus that rolled out of their factory a couple decades ago.
Have the dealer put you in touch with the engineering department, and explain that what you need is a letter authorizing Allison to unlock the transmission ... They don't need to do anything.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Have the dealer put you in touch with the engineering department, and explain that what you need is a letter authorizing Allison to unlock the transmission ... They don't need to do anything.
I think I will definitely try again. Perhaps at a different International dealer. Like you said, International doesn't have to do anything other than give me written approval. Allison takes care of the rest.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:04 AM   #35
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I just sent an email off to Thomas with all the details on my bus

Hopefully I hear back
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:32 PM   #36
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So I received price info from the programmer at PCMperformance.com

For the MD3060 transmission the TCM model is the WTEC3. Or at least in my bus it is. After sending them a picture of mine, they gave me 3 different options. I can send my current TCM in to be programmed to use 6th, they can send a used one programmed, or they can send a new one. To send the current one in you will have to deal with not being able to move the bus until you get it back, and it still costs a few hundred dollars.

It is an option, but it's not cheap. I do think that I will opt to send them my TCM to be programmed to unlock 6th, though.

Also, I found my TCM behind a bunch of wire tubing mounted next to the transmission on the driver side of the bus.

Hope this helps! I will update when I get around to pulling the TCM out and getting it programmed.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:11 AM   #37
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what were the 3 price options, I'm sure many here would want to know?
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:21 AM   #38
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I bought a reprogrammed one for my bus and paid a little over a $1000. Did not try it yet. I am more then happy to pay more going the unofficial way and stimulate these companies that challenge the big boys.
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:06 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panoman14 View Post
So I received price info from the programmer at PCMperformance.com

For the MD3060 transmission the TCM model is the WTEC3. Or at least in my bus it is. After sending them a picture of mine, they gave me 3 different options. I can send my current TCM in to be programmed to use 6th, they can send a used one programmed, or they can send a new one. To send the current one in you will have to deal with not being able to move the bus until you get it back, and it still costs a few hundred dollars.

It is an option, but it's not cheap. I do think that I will opt to send them my TCM to be programmed to unlock 6th, though.

Also, I found my TCM behind a bunch of wire tubing mounted next to the transmission on the driver side of the bus.

Hope this helps! I will update when I get around to pulling the TCM out and getting it programmed.
This is great news to find an outside company that is capable of unlocking 6th gear. I would imagine an Allison dealer is going to charge you a few hundred bucks as well if you were to go through all of the OEM hoops. I'd gladly pay that. If I can increase my highway fuel mileage by 5-10% it would pay for itself within a few years. If you go with this route I'd be interested to see how it all works out.
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:15 AM   #40
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PCM quoted me $400 to reprogram my controller

I’m going to wait out Thomas to see if I can maybe go through Allison for a bit cheaper

If I get closer to travel time as the project gets finished (August/September) I’ll eventually go through PCM probably
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