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Old 02-23-2016, 05:15 PM   #31
Mini-Skoolie
 
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gotchya, good info, thanks
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Old 02-23-2016, 05:49 PM   #32
Bus Crazy
 
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Throw another relay pole in there for bridging the AC neutral and ground only when the inverter is providing the power.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:36 PM   #33
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Always love the wiring discussions and have talked to many sparkles myself about my build.
It might take a little physical effort like using plug in types to change around?
I wasn't thinking as cheap as possible I was thinking if the bus didn't start then it was a problem with the bus, if the 12v lights or whatever didn't work then it was a problem with the 12v system and if the 120 house power didn't work then it is within in power to the house (shore/generator)?
I do not want the house 12 or 120 no matter the amps to drain my starting up and moving my mobile house home to diagnose the problem. If my 12 don't work then I look at the batteries and charger or the 12v fuse panel I made and if the 120 panel don't work at the same time as the 12 charger then I know it is external and if one goes and not the other then it is internal to a specific system and not both and if I can't figure out the stuff I built then I can start up and go to wherever I feel I need to fix or better diagnose?
It is cheaper in the long run to keep everything seperate and use plug in plug's and actually know what is plugged in and what is not instead of trying to find/diagnose/hunt down/figure out which switch,charger,relay,converter,inverter,panel board with a bad rocker switch, wiring connection,disconnection? Ain't for me
Keep it seperate and don't over engineer it or (in my opinion ) you will be cursing later.
Cheap engineering means you have to do more than plug it in and walk away? But we are only talking about 3-4 seperate plugs that needs to fit the proper plug in and please don't try to make a (correct me if i am wrong) 30-amp twist lock fit in a 50-amp twist! It does not take much and everything is fried when you do unless your breaker panel is oversized and then your 120 is fried. The old converter/inverter is probably the good but put it where you can get to it and leave space for an up grade?
My build is the KISS method and of course electrical and painting are not my strong points? I know a lot more elect. Than I do paint. One thing I have done right is my wife and will never ask me to paint anything again. I get the primer and sandpaper but I can't do anything for finish
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:38 PM   #34
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I screwed up the happy dance? I only wanted it at the end and not the start? Sorry
I hate paint and it hates me
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post
Throw another relay pole in there for bridging the AC neutral and ground only when the inverter is providing the power.
Good point. I hadn't thought about switching the neutrals.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #36
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I had considered the extra poles for neutrals, however im not sure what you mean by only when the inverter is providing power..

here is what I have drawn now
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:06 PM   #37
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Your last post isn't showing any image; maybe its URL got broken.

Per "generally accepted electrical procedures" an AC power system should have an energized line conductor, a neutral conductor, and a safety ground conductor. Normally we think of the line as supplying the power to the load and the neutral as returning the current back to the source, brushing aside the "alternating" part of alternating current. The safety ground shouldn't carry any current in the normal case. But in order for it to provide any safety, there ultimately has to be a connection (a "bond") between the ground and the neutral conductors so that current can flow via the ground conductor back to the source during a fault.

For semi-technical reasons the neutral-ground bond should exist in only one place in each electrical system. In regular grid-connected electrical systems like our homes, an RV campground, etc that connection is made in the main circuit breaker panel. If somebody were to create a duplicate bond by wiring an RV with its neutral and ground connected together and plugging it into the home or campground system, it could cause a range of nuisance problems including GFI breaker/outlet tripping, or it could cause no apparent problems at all, or it could cause more serious/dangerous problems. So we just don't do that.

However, when the RV is plugged into an independent source of power like an inverter or generator, the ground-neutral bond probably won't be provided. Most (all?) generators I'm aware of do not have a ground-neutral bond factory installed and I presume the same for hard-wired inverters. Not sure about plug-in style inverters (check their manuals).

As a general rule, when using a portable power source you'll need to take care of the ground-neutral bond yourself. In another thread here on skoolie.net Mike Sokol proposed a clever bond plug: a standard replacement male cord end with a jumper between ground and neutral. When plugging the RV into a generator or inverter, plug the bond plug into the other socket on the generator/inverter. That works well for the plug-style connection, but when things are built in and hard-wired, I suggest the ground-neutral (un-)bonding should be done through the same action that operates the rest of the transfer switch.
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:23 PM   #38
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with the way i have laid it out, i have not done anything to bond the neutral and ground... if I had an extra pole on my relay it seems like I could just send it to the ground of the inverter/shore power
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:32 PM   #39
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Sure, if there were an unused pole that would be a great use for it. Maybe the SPDT at the converter input could be changed to DPDT for little additional cost, or just add another of those Tyco relays at the $10-ish cost. I'm waffling a little about the switch in the neutrals -- I can't give a reason why it's a bad idea, nor do I see it as being necessary. You could perhaps free a relay pole by not switching the neutrals.
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:42 PM   #40
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I dont see how it would work to not connect the neutrals - I am very in experienced with ac stuff but i thought it flowed from + to neutral, and ground is there in case.. so if i dont switch the neutral then what would it be wired too?
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