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Old 02-24-2016, 07:47 PM   #41
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Oh, sorry for the confusion. You're entirely correct that the neutrals do need to connect. I meant instead of switching the neutrals to just tie the shore power, inverter, and breaker panel neutrals all together all the time.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:43 PM   #42
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Family - So if I'm understanding you, the ground and neutral merely need to come together at some point in order for the breakers to operate. Is that correct? Does the fact that while on inverter or generator the ground wire never actually goes to a physical earth ground matter?

What's the proper way of bonding the two at a generator or inverter?

Our bus uses minimal AC power so we never got into this subject.
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:13 AM   #43
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Ohh, I understand, it doesnt need a switch there because if anything is unplugged the neutral part of the circuit is already broken - ie the relay there is redundant! that would free up a relay pole for my ground!

so i could then ground the circuits to either the inverter or the shore power grounds - that seems like the most logical way to deal with grounding stuff to me but let me know if thats mis guided.

this makes the assumption that a power inverter safely deals with ground and neutral boding - not sure if this is accurate or not but it seems like if a power inverter did not do that then it would not even have a ground in its socket...
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:47 AM   #44
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it sounds like in the inverter the ground and neutral bond if the inverter meets UL 458 Solar Power Wholesale Distributor | AEE Solar

"If the RV is not connected to the grid, there needs to be a neutral bond in the RV’s power panel. If the RV is connected to a grid hook-up at an RV park, the utility power system in the RV park will already have a neutral bond in the Service Entrance, so the bond in the RV needs to be disconnected. Otherwise there would be two bonds, which as explained earlier, presents an unsafe condition."

so it seems like according to this, if i send the ground to the inverter - the inverter takes care of the ground neutral bond.
likewise if i send the ground to the shore's ground - it should have a ground neutral bond at the service entrance
therefore the grounds like the neutral can just split and go to either the inverter or the shore power where everything is taken care of

this stuff can be a little confusing....
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo3000 View Post
this stuff can be a little confusing....
No kidding. Like you, I was pretty well grounded on Residential AC wiring before starting our bus, but combining AC and DC in the same space took some time to wrap my head around. By far the most difficult part of the project.

Now I need to have a look at my honda generator and figure out whether I need to make one of those plug thingys.

Edit: It appears that I need to make one for when I'm powering the RV.
http://noshockzone.org/generator-gro...utral-bonding/
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Old 02-25-2016, 02:36 PM   #46
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Here's a good explanation of the neutral/ground question:

http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/...he-main-panel/

Other stuff I've found:

> Inverters sold for home use will not have the internal bond. In home use the main panel provides the bond.

> The RV inverter/chargers (standby inverters) should automatically handle the bond when switching from shore power to battery power.

> Inverters sold to be attached directly to the RV breaker panel should have the bond (but apparently some don't) so it's up to us to check our systems.

> Contractor grade generators and those meant to be permanently installed in an RV usually do have the bond while many of the smaller Honda/Yamaha portables need a bonding plug when powering an RV.
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by roach711 View Post
Family - So if I'm understanding you, the ground and neutral merely need to come together at some point in order for the breakers to operate. Is that correct? Does the fact that while on inverter or generator the ground wire never actually goes to a physical earth ground matter?
right, the "ground" conductor has to connect to the neutral so that breakers will trip, instead of leaving things in an energized state.

The lack of connection to terra firma is an interesting topic. I got sucked in last night reading on several web sites about the topic. It's something construction, cinematography, and other industries deal with all the time; it's not unique to RVs. This one here was going really well until I ran out of time. It's long, but seemed like a good informative read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711 View Post
Inverters sold to be attached directly to the RV breaker panel should have the bond (but apparently some don't) so it's up to us to check our systems.
(emphasis in quote is mine) That's the main thing right there. When a person picks up a portable generator/inverter, he should determine whether it already contains an internal bond, whether the power system already includes a bond, and make a decision about where the one bond is going to be.
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:31 PM   #48
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Looks like this thread has been a learning experience for all of us!
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:05 PM   #49
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so I just olugged the batteries back in and now the ign/on switch does not activate the main electrical solenoid that goes to electronics like lights and fans

y'all got any ideas?? I can't find the problem

edit* after like 45 min of searching for the iss. I found a fuse
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