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05-29-2018, 01:12 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 258
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
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Floor insulation without 2x framing?
Getting ready to insulate the floor of my bus. Looks like some people use just foam sandwiched between plywood and their metal bus floor without any 2x2 framing. In this case, when you screw down the plywood, do you use long screws and go all the way thru the insulation and into the floor?
Is there an advantage of using the framing method over just insulation?
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05-29-2018, 01:29 PM
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#2
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Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: GA
Posts: 129
Year: 1998
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 78
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I have seen it done both ways and i am almost to step as well. Curious to know myself.
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05-29-2018, 01:34 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Depends on how your top floor is secured. I plan on a a floating floor of snap together laminate on top of 1-1/2" foam insulation with Pex heating coils. Cabinets will be secured to the walls., nothing through the floor.
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05-29-2018, 01:37 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 258
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
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Interesting. I like the idea of not having the additional cost or height of plywood. What concerns would there be doing it this way? in this case, does anything get glued? Insulation to metal or laminate to insulation?
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05-29-2018, 01:43 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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i plan on a tight fit with the insulation and slight gap on the laminate, don't plan on gluing anything, which would make it no longer floating.
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05-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 258
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
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I have some leftover laminate and a foam sheet at home. May just try this to see if the laminate joints buckle. That would be my main concern
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05-29-2018, 03:22 PM
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#7
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Colorado
Posts: 164
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Amtrans
Chassis: Genesis
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 20 (9 window handicap)
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I am getting ready to do my floor as well, and going to try to do without framing too.
A couple of questions to add, does putting foam or plywood against the sides lead to squeaks while moving or walking? or is there something you are suppose to do to prevent the materials from rubbing.
And the only area I was concerned about framing would be the handicap lift. I am wanting to leave it in, at least for now. Not sure if I should just work around it, since I assume moving it and then putting it back will be tough. But if I did move it, would you frame underneath it since there is potentially so much weight in one spot if the lift was fully loaded?
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05-29-2018, 04:10 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,269
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
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The only thing I did was to carpet the front and rear 1/3 and lino the middle. I've survived 3 Montana winters so far without frozen tootsies.
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05-29-2018, 06:34 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,056
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
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I've got the metal floor, an inch of XPS, 3/4 inch of plywood, and then snap together "luxury" vinyl planks. So far so good! Framing under the floor didn't seem useful.
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05-29-2018, 06:37 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 258
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
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I thought the framing may have been to keep the play from bending. Really wonder if I could get away with 25psi xps underneath with no wood
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05-30-2018, 07:04 AM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MambaJack
I have some leftover laminate and a foam sheet at home. May just try this to see if the laminate joints buckle. That would be my main concern
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Yes please! I'd like to hear your results. I personally wouldn't trust it. Even 3/8" plywood on top of the foam is going to be better and is cheap insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MambaJack
Interesting. I like the idea of not having the additional cost or height of plywood. What concerns would there be doing it this way? in this case, does anything get glued? Insulation to metal or laminate to insulation?
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I personally like glue. PL Premium. I'd glue it all down, except for the top flooring if it's intended to float since that probable means it expands and contracts a lot depending on humidity and temperature.
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10-07-2018, 08:06 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 447
Year: 1989
Chassis: International
Engine: 9.L
Rated Cap: 64
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So, how has the no furring strip method worked for any or all of you? Now the question i have is, will the screws ran clear through the metal floor be a thermal bridge?
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10-07-2018, 04:58 PM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 16
Year: 1999
Coachwork: ATC
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 444e
Rated Cap: 20
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With my plan to use linoleum flooring in my wheelchair bus, plywood that is secured, will be mandatory.
__________________
Brian
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10-10-2018, 08:11 PM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 447
Year: 1989
Chassis: International
Engine: 9.L
Rated Cap: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown
I've got the metal floor, an inch of XPS, 3/4 inch of plywood, and then snap together "luxury" vinyl planks. So far so good! Framing under the floor didn't seem useful.
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How is going without running framing under your floor? Any regrets?
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10-11-2018, 10:43 PM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 258
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeypj
How is going without running framing under your floor? Any regrets?
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I had initially planned to go this route, but changed my mind and went with a 2x2 frame. I didn't think the foam alone would work and feared that over time the ply would warp.
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10-12-2018, 07:11 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,430
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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My floor is 3/4 plywood floating on 2 inch styrofoam insulation. No subframe. This is only the area that is walked on and has the heat pex running through it under the plywood. It's been in for over three years. I get an occasional squeak when walking on it but, no worse than a lot of old houses. No squeaks when driving.
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10-12-2018, 07:27 AM
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#17
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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I put 2" XPS down with no subframe and 5\8" tongue and groove plywood on top. I used copious amounts of PL Premium and some screws to hold it all together. 5+ years and going strong. No sagging, no squeaking.
My only regret is using the screws in the first place.
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10-12-2018, 09:20 AM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 819
Year: 1993
Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 66
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I didn't use any 2x framing on my floor other then around openings where the foam would be seen. The foam is very dense and very hard to compress. We laid the foam down and went over it with 5/8 plywood. The plywood was then screwed down through the foam to the original floor. Worked great for us and the floor is very sturdy/solid.
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10-12-2018, 10:45 AM
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#19
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34
Year: 1990
Engine: 6.0L 366 Chevy Big Block
Rated Cap: 47
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I plan on laying down 3/4 plywood and laying a floating floor across it . I figured it had a plywood and rubber top before so it should work fine for me . I did go through and patch all of the seat holes . I didn't insulate cause I don't plan on using it much in winter .
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10-12-2018, 12:12 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Posts: 1,634
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Crown / Pusher
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
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I put down 2" styrofoam length ways & staggered the seam line, meaning starting from the back 4ft wide piece against left wall narrower piece against rt wall then reversed for the next section forward that way there wasn't a seam the length of the bus. then i took 1 1/8" tg plywood laid crossways, {Had to trim about 4" off the ends} started 1st one butted up tight against the back then put a bead of glue in each groove before fitting in next piece then put screws in fwd edge of last piece installed. Floor feels very solid & altho I'm no engineer I think this should let the floor float enough to prevent major problems.
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