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Old 04-11-2015, 05:21 AM   #11
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wow, busdan. first two posts are 100% helpful! welcome aboard!
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Antony Wray View Post
I think I will try the ceramic insulated elastomeric roof coating...
My experience with the insulating beads: http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/in...ease-9291.html

In my opinion: not worth it. Not only do they not work as advertised, they also leave you with a crusty paint job.

White paint, on the other hand, is very effective.
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Old 04-11-2015, 12:50 PM   #13
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And I'll add my opinion again about painting the exterior: Use 3M bubbles added to your exterior paint of choice Fillers. I think it's the most effective way (cheap, light) to add insulation on the outside of a bus. Having a crusty paint job is an issue of application.

In the tests that jazty did (which I think are valid) the sawdust helped as did the hytech bubbles. Notice that both of those have insulating properties. There's many websites where you can look up insulating properties of different materials and it shows that wood has good thermal properties, especially when thermal mass is considered. The 3M bubbles also have good insulating properties. They're the same as the Hytech stuff and MUCH cheaper.

Snow is also a good insulator. That combined with the heater is what caused the extreme condensation.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:26 PM   #14
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OR you could put on a couple more coats of elastomeric paint and have a nice looking, durable roof without
any grit. 2 coats + beads is the same as 4 plain coats, but 4 plain coats looks way better, seals better, and is more durable.
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:51 PM   #15
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OR you could put on a couple more coats of elastomeric paint and have a nice looking, durable roof without
any grit. 2 coats + beads is the same as 4 plain coats, but 4 plain coats looks way better, seals better, and is more durable.
That sounds good. I've never used the elastomeric for my bus so I don't have any experience there.
The bubbles are commonly used as a light weight filler in airplane fiberglass applications so if a shiny smooth roof was high on your list and you don't mind sanding you could go that route. Use a paint that has good flexibility. The most important thing is the color- white is the way to go. Lots of good info on paint temperatures, etc. on HomeBuiltAirplanes.com or any of the other composite airplane forums. Paint color on composite airplanes can be a life or death decision.
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:38 PM   #16
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To anyone installing roof vents.

Don't drive your bus in the rain. You will get more water in the bus than the condensation ever did.

Ventilating hot air is a good thing, however it dose nothing to block the radiant heat. You will still slowly cook like your in a oven.

Insulating the roof in the most important part of any building. The bus roof is even more important due to the fact you have no room to leave enough air space for passive cooling. The fact that it is a heavy gauge metal structure just compounds the problem.

Remove the metal skin on the ceiling and get minimum 2 inches of Styrofoam up there. Plain and simple.

I'm glad others have tested that fake thermal paint and proved it to be a waste of money. Like others have mentioned, white is the best color for your bus roof.

Nat
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:19 PM   #17
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???!! $6.45 plus reasonable shipping charge added to a couple gallons of white paint to reduce the roof temperature an additional 3 degrees (according to jazty's experiment) is a waste of money?

Now if you're talking about the Hytech stuff, yeah it's a ripoff because all it is is the same 3M microspheres.

I agree- 2" foam against the metal on the interior is the best way to go but apparently the OP doesn't want to skin down to the metal.
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojiewoojie View Post
???!! $6.45 plus reasonable shipping charge added to a couple gallons of white paint to reduce the roof temperature an additional 3 degrees (according to jazty's experiment) is a waste of money?

Now if you're talking about the Hytech stuff, yeah it's a ripoff because all it is is the same 3M microspheres.

I agree- 2" foam against the metal on the interior is the best way to go but apparently the OP doesn't want to skin down to the metal.
I was talking about the marked up Hytech stuff.

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Old 04-11-2015, 06:08 PM   #19
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Cool. Hey, I've enjoyed your build progress - still waiting to see how you're gonna do your windshield...
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojiewoojie View Post
The bubbles are commonly used as a light weight filler in airplane fiberglass applications so if a shiny smooth roof was high on your list and you don't mind sanding you could go that route. Use a paint that has good flexibility. The most important thing is the color- white is the way to go. Lots of good info on paint temperatures, etc. on HomeBuiltAirplanes.com or any of the other composite airplane forums. Paint color on composite airplanes can be a life or death decision.
I totally agree on color - I think I've posted the same chart myself. But back on the "bubbles", we called this "micro" (short for microballoons which is what they're usually called when sold, if you want to search for them). Micro was used as a lightening filler. Epoxy is relatively heavy, and there's that rule: if you throw something in the air and it comes back down, don't put it on your plane. When you go to finish the outside surface for paint-prep, making a micro slurry would give you a much lighter material to paint on.

That was its only purpose - it was never used to provide any kind of insulating effect. I have no doubt that micro itself DOES insulate, both because of what it is and because of personal experience. Once in a pot of epoxy, it drastically reduces the working time of that epoxy before it "goes" off - and epoxy full of micro can do this spectacularly. It'll start smoking, turn a nasty brown color, burn holes in things, etc. Epoxy cures through a chemical reaction that gives off heat, and heat also makes it go faster. With micro in the mix, this happens a lot faster. You can literally go from 45 minutes down to 5-10.

At the same time, all insulators are measured in terms of thermal resistance per unit of thickness. Micro isn't magic, and in the millimeter of thickness you'd have in a few coats of paint I seriously doubt you'd get any kind of significant R-value increase. I know a lot of people put stock in these things, but if anybody ever actually did a serious, scientific evaluation of them I would bet heavily that most or nearly all of the effect came from the color and reflectivity of the paint, not the balloons themselves actually preventing conductive heat transfer.
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