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Old 02-09-2018, 04:50 PM   #1
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Insulation

I’m considering converting a school bus to rv. Several videos I’ve watched showed taking the floor down to the metal then laying in a foam and plywood subfloor then installing your floor. Is that insulation going to do that much it couldn’t be that much r value. Also is it necessary to remove the ceiling panels to put in insulation in the roof. My son would have the bus in Florida.

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Old 02-09-2018, 05:04 PM   #2
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I’m considering converting a school bus to rv. Several videos I’ve watched showed taking the floor down to the metal then laying in a foam and plywood subfloor then installing your floor. Is that insulation going to do that much it couldn’t be that much r value. Also is it necessary to remove the ceiling panels to put in insulation in the roof. My son would have the bus in Florida.
Here's what I've discovered so far about insulation.
1. The factory stuff is usually garbage by now unless you have a newer bus or one that was pampered.
2. The removal of the floor is actually part of a longevity thing. some floors from the factory are rubber on plywood on steel, meaning the plywood holds moisture and rusts the floors, so you gut it in order to do rust repair and sealing it in a product of your choice.
3. If you have totally gutted the floor, and aren't very tall, why not use better insulation? (anythings a better R value then plywood)
4. If you have an acoustical panel roof, as the bus ages you get ultra-fine fiberglass dust steadily raining on you. Plus it's not super insulating anyway..

ultimately my thoughts on your question is this..

Pull flooring, Pull ceiling, Pull walls if its within your means (meaning if your steady with a grinder or don't mind pulling your windows)(pulling windows is not always required)

Clean, preform rust repair, coat all repairs to prevent a reoccurrence, Insulate with whatever you feel is appropriate to your climate that you'll be spending most of your time in

Reassemble and begin building out your floor plan.

Hope it helps.
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:05 PM   #3
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You can get around an Rvalue of 10 with some 2" rigid foam board. You have to keep in mind you are inside a tin can, in the sun you will bake, in the cold you will freeze. Insulating the floors reminds of the road signs that say "Bridge freezes before road does", because airflow underneath the bridge or bus just sap heat away. The secret behind removing the ceiling panels is 2 fold, one to check for any rusty areas, and two to have access to that 2" cavity for adding insulation. Due to the low roof height of standard skoolies that 2" is critical to anyone over 6' tall. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't comfortable to have 75° air in your bus and have a floor that's 100°
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:39 PM   #4
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You can get around an Rvalue of 10 with some 2" rigid foam board. You have to keep in mind you are inside a tin can, in the sun you will bake, in the cold you will freeze. Insulating the floors reminds of the road signs that say "Bridge freezes before road does", because airflow underneath the bridge or bus just sap heat away. The secret behind removing the ceiling panels is 2 fold, one to check for any rusty areas, and two to have access to that 2" cavity for adding insulation. Due to the low roof height of standard skoolies that 2" is critical to anyone over 6' tall. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't comfortable to have 75° air in your bus and have a floor that's 100°
Also, wrt the ceiling, every screw or rivet in the ceiling is a direct thermal bridge to the outside.

It will fry you in summer, freeze you in winter, and rain on you anytime the humidity gets high and the temp drops a few degrees.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:23 PM   #5
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If you're following springtime and never experience extreme temps, you won't miss the insulation. Your floor might rust out from under you, but that's a different problem that happens to share the same solution.

Our plan was to follow spring time. We found that even though we went north through summer and then back south, everywhere we went we were hitting record breaking extremes. Triple digits from Texas to Washington State. Then the trip back south, we had snow and ice chasing us from Michigan all the wya to Florida.

We're building our second bus and are putting a lot of time and energy into insulating, Deleting windows, replacing floor, walls, ceiling, building insulated interior walls...
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:13 PM   #6
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Insurance

Can someone let me who would insure the bus in Florida
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:41 PM   #7
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If you're following springtime and never experience extreme temps, you won't miss the insulation. Your floor might rust out from under you, but that's a different problem that happens to share the same solution.

Our plan was to follow spring time. We found that even though we went north through summer and then back south, everywhere we went we were hitting record breaking extremes. Triple digits from Texas to Washington State. Then the trip back south, we had snow and ice chasing us from Michigan all the wya to Florida.

We're building our second bus and are putting a lot of time and energy into insulating, Deleting windows, replacing floor, walls, ceiling, building insulated interior walls...
Reminds me of last time I went on the road "chasing spring". Because of scheduling issues beyond my control I wound up in Las Vegas in August and Minneapolis in February....

I was sure glad that I had insulated well.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:18 AM   #8
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I’m considering converting a school bus to rv. Several videos I’ve watched showed taking the floor down to the metal then laying in a foam and plywood subfloor then installing your floor. Is that insulation going to do that much it couldn’t be that much r value. Also is it necessary to remove the ceiling panels to put in insulation in the roof. My son would have the bus in Florida.
I live in Texas, and trust me, in the south, you want insulation, and a radiant barrier of some kind...

Yes insulating the floor helps. Busses are pretty high up of the ground, and heat rises.

2 layers of R-Max would give you R12, which should be more than sufficient for floors and walls. For the roof I would coat it / paint it white with a flexible RV friendly radiant barrier coating, there are many on the market, and spray foam at least R18 in the ceiling. You can use 3 layers of R max but you'd need to spray the gaps anyway, might as well just do it.

Use spray foam gap sealant in the spaces the R Max won't fit, and you'll have it nicely insulated.

Having said that, since you will also be using propane appliances most likely, you MUST allow for proper make up / combustion air to get into the bus...

Good luck with your project!
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:14 PM   #9
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Insulation also helps with the tin can sound all school buses make.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
If you're following springtime and never experience extreme temps, you won't miss the insulation. Your floor might rust out from under you, but that's a different problem that happens to share the same solution.

Our plan was to follow spring time. We found that even though we went north through summer and then back south, everywhere we went we were hitting record breaking extremes. Triple digits from Texas to Washington State. Then the trip back south, we had snow and ice chasing us from Michigan all the wya to Florida.

We're building our second bus and are putting a lot of time and energy into insulating, Deleting windows, replacing floor, walls, ceiling, building insulated interior walls...
When I went on the road in my first bus my idea was to follow mild weather. Life had other plans for me that included Minneapolis in February and Las Vegas in August. Boy was I glad to have 2" of foam insulation.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:11 PM   #11
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Insulation also helps with the tin can sound all school buses make.
Not necessarily. My Thomas RE was very quiet on the trip from Kankakee to Billings simply because that Caterpillar noisemaker was about 30 feet BEHIND me.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:25 PM   #12
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Not necessarily. My Thomas RE was very quiet on the trip from Kankakee to Billings simply because that Caterpillar noisemaker was about 30 feet BEHIND me.
So are you saying better insulation wouldn't make a difference?
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:13 PM   #13
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Insulation DOES make a difference, but, if you're running an FE transit-style bus, it really won't make a lot of difference. Distance DOES mean a lot.
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:42 PM   #14
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Looking at insulation for my Shorty, I don't want to lose too much space due to height limitations as I'm 6' and the bus is 73" +/- at bare metal. What do you all think of doing a standard wood frame and 1" thick foam insulation squares/rectangles that is most common and then have a ~1/2" air gap and Reflectix (or similiar) rolled out and then the plywood subfloor on top of that?

Does the Reflectix need an air gap on both sides? Would it be more beneficial to just double up on the 1" (or change to 3/4" and double those) and then the plywood directly over those and skip the air gap and Reflectix? I'm considering this for floor, walls and ceiling. Reflectix and the wood I'm considering for the ceiling wouldn't amount to much space lost and the Reflectix under the subfloor wouldn't amount to much either and it would be an additional barrier.

If I were to do this, should the foam board insulation be foil backed and have foil on either side of the air gap (foil of the foam facing up from the floor and then the gap with Reflectix on top of the gap) or just standard foam board without foil? Or foil down?


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Old 03-24-2018, 06:34 PM   #15
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In most situations, Reflectix is a complete waste of money.

Foam-board doesn't need foil, and they type that has foil (R-Max), has it on both sides.
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:39 PM   #16
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Should I look for a specific R Value? I know I've seen some that is around R5 or R6, should I get a thinner one that is slightly lower R and double them?

Is it more efficient doing one piece that is 1.5" thick or two pieces stacked at 3/4" each?
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:45 PM   #17
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Should I look for a specific R Value? I know I've seen some that is around R5 or R6, should I get a thinner one that is slightly lower R and double them?

Is it more efficient doing one piece that is 1.5" thick or two pieces stacked at 3/4" each?
It's more flexible doing two layers, but a few more bucks.

It did 1 1/2" Formular (the pink stuff, R5 per inch), but mainly because All I could buy locally was 1", 1/2" or 2".
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:48 PM   #18
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It's more flexible doing two layers, but a few more bucks.

It did 1 1/2" Formular (the pink stuff, R5 per inch), but mainly because All I could buy locally was 1", 1/2" or 2".
Is the R-Max (or any other foil backed) worth doing? Is there enough benefit? I will be full-timing and going to rather cold and hot climates periodically.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:29 PM   #19
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Welcome aboard. I'm in the midst of my first build - and have done a LOT of reading here, filtering out the different options to see what fit my budget/wish list/bus design. I don't think I've read yet anyone who said that they felt that they over-insulated their bus. There are many who said they wished they did more.
You are dealing with two issues - trying to get the best insulation in a limited space (thickness), and trying to break as many thermal bridges as possible (at least as big an issue as insulation). If I had unlimited budget, I would pay a pro to do a roof raise, frame up the floor and ceiling with wood, and spray foam insulation (use closed cell only in the bus).
Back to reality for me, since I'm doing all the work, and would rather spend more of my budget on toys I can see inside the bus - I am furring out my ceiling with 1x3's over my steel frame, with rubber window tape in between the steel and wood. Then I am going to cut 1" foam board and gluing it to the outside skin, followed by spray foam to get the nooks/crannies that were missed. The ceiling will be tongue and groove boards screwed into the wooden furring strips. Walls will be similarly done, but will be FRP panels attached to the wooden furring strips.
Haven't gotten quite to that stage yet, so all of the above is subject to change.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:34 PM   #20
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I used Foamular 1" pink polystyrene topped with 3/4 tongue and groove sub-floor plywood.

The foam on the floor should have a decent compressive load rating, which polyisocyanurate foam(Thermasheath Rmax) doesn't have.
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