Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-31-2016, 03:44 PM   #91
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: West Kootenays, BC
Posts: 24
Year: 2003
Chassis: Type-C Conventional
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwang_yi View Post
Can I just remove panel, install insulation then put original panels back? Judging by video I watched, there seems to be enough space for R10 insulation padding, perhaps as deep as R20 or R30 fiberglass insulation. I would be very conservative selecting insulating material, use only traditional industry proven and widely available material.

There is a rivet like bolt, and to my guess, it's like rivet-ted nut so that screws can used, alleviating future removal of paneling to inspect fungus growth. Problem with fungus is not that it's difficult to terminate, but it's presence is unknown unless paneling is removed. Remove paneling, inspect for mold to take appropriate action, then place paneling where it belong with a screw driver.

Sheet metal paneling looks cool to me, much more appealing and safer than dry wall material commonly used on modern home consturction. Due to nature of how dry walls are made, it's just impossible to completely eliminate formaldehyde in its substance. I would much rather be exposed to fungus than a toxic glue like stuff used to bond paper material. I hear this stuff is everywhere in modern home building.

If I'm limited on financial resources, I would much rather focus on mechanical aspect of bus; make sure bus will be operable when needed the most. I can't imagine stuck in the middle of harsh winter and the bus can't be move to more livable region, or naively landed in a hostile region and can't be moved quickly due to mechanical failure.
you could do as you say, but unfortunately the issues around metal causing condensation and fiber based insulation being an ideal breeding ground for mould and moisture issues, doing it this way just re-creates the original problem to begin with.

myself i am going to wait until I hear back from bluebird to make a decision. if the metal is indeed integral to roadworthy structure, i will elect to insulate and build within the parameters of the original skinning. i tend to favor wood walls over anything like drywall over here. like you, i am also concerned with the amount of space age plastics that I use in this construction. I'm just not into it, as I know far too much about the dangers of man-made toxins to pretend I don't....

and again, like you, i agree that the mechanical condition of the bus is of primary importance. Bulletproof insulation in a vehicle is only necessary if you can't move it or don't intend to.
teambadass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 11:54 AM   #92
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: West Kootenays, BC
Posts: 24
Year: 2003
Chassis: Type-C Conventional
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 49
OK, so the reply from Bluebird came in, and the answer from them is definitive enough for me. Here is a copy and paste of the email:


Team Badass (name changed for privacy),

The interior inside side panels and interior steel headlining panels are part of the structural integrity of the bus and cannot be removed without affecting the strength of the body.

Thank you,

<image001.jpg> │ Justyne Lobello │ Product Communications & Marketing Manager │ Blue Bird Corporation │ Phone 478.822.2763 │ 402 Blue Bird Blvd, Fort Valley, Georgia 31030


Thanks Tango for bringing this up. Although many owners might still pull their wall panels and insulation, I'm not going to. I will insulate over top and see how it goes! Thanks for the input all.
teambadass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 11:59 AM   #93
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: West Kootenays, BC
Posts: 24
Year: 2003
Chassis: Type-C Conventional
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Here we go again. And I promise this will be the last time I post this. According to a retired Blue Bird engineer I consulted with years ago...both the exterior AND interior sheet metal panels are necessary to maintain overall structural integrity. Together they form a box beam effect in conjunction with the ribs.

I really would like to hear a real professional position on this subject and not more opinions or conjecture.

It is true Tango. Thank you for your persistence in this! Verified by the company itself
teambadass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 01:20 PM   #94
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 11,196
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Ward/AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 78
So... the seats are technically part of the structural integrity too.
.0001% maybe.
OF course BB are going to go with the obvious cya answer. They never intended the buses to be used for this. DO Wanderlodges come with metal interior panels?
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 01:37 PM   #95
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: West Kootenays, BC
Posts: 24
Year: 2003
Chassis: Type-C Conventional
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
So... the seats are technically part of the structural integrity too.
.0001% maybe.
OF course BB are going to go with the obvious cya answer. They never intended the buses to be used for this. DO Wanderlodges come with metal interior panels?
I need a tank, not a cushy padded cell. All of us have our unique needs... so to each their own I suppose.
teambadass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 02:58 PM   #96
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,865
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Up until I believe the mid-90's or so, Blue Bird Wanderlodges were built on exactly the same chassis, running gear & body as their All-American school buses. I know for a fact they all had the same sheet basic metal inside. Only big differences were the RV style windows and metal to accommodate them plus some shiny trim.

Good representation of their engineering about halfway down the BB owners forum here...(imagine what a stick & staple job would have looked like)...

FC VS Pusher - Page 5 - Wanderlodge Owners Group
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 05:12 PM   #97
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 61
More I think about this modification, more I see the need to have accurate modeling of a bus. The reason is to eliminate guessing work, so I know what modified bus will look like evm before spending single penny on purchase of materials.

Luckily, I was able to sign with Autodesk and have the real stuffs to play around with different architectural concepts. Those who are not familiar with thier software, they cost like $2000/year for license. If you're student/faculty, Autodesk will let you have this software for nothing for three years. There are many demonstration in youtube channel, so see how you you like them. I haven't yet to find a good demonstration who really seem to understand computer modeling, but then, I never found anyone of any expertise coming on to youtube channel anyways. Most of the techniques demonstrated by publishers are more like beginners, meaning you can make it much better than anyone in youtube channel in short time.

If you can make yourself proficient in drafting, you can earn comfortable wages. Drafting is a good place to escape from miserable dead-end job for those young people who lacks desirable degrees yet have urges to participate in forefront of technology. In such way, you people don't need to go around and say, someone at some place told me one must be done one way only. You should be able to do whatever you want once you understand by reviewing their drawing/specifications, make yourself an authority in matter.
kwang_yi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 06:11 PM   #98
Skoolie
 
Jman6631's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 189
This has been a great read and like many I've hemmed and hawed on the best path forward while reading what appear to be reasonable takes on this issue. I already removed the interior paneling and nasty insulation from my '88 Thomas (Newman Skoolie - http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/new-project-6893.html). I'll likely be full-timing so I know I wanted that insulation out of there. I did so not only because I'd seen so many other successful projects do so but also because it was the best way for me to remediate rust issues. I don't have a lot of rust but there were outside panels replaced by the school system before I bought her and I wanted to be sure. Thankfully other than in those areas there is essentially no rust.

I'm going to run down the middle of the road on this issue which I know will make you engineering types fume and you purists hostile(!). I think it is reasonable to assume (there's that word!) that the interior metal skin does add to the structural integrity (how could it not?) but I'm not convinced that it is so great as to require keeping it or one risks loosing their pride-n-joy altogether. I also believe high quality spray foam will add to the structural integrity but not by much. What tipped me over the top was planning to replace that interior sheet metal with 4x8 wainscoting panels, which, while not structural-grade plywood and not steel, will contribute *somewhat* to the structural loss of loosing the interior steel panels.

This, plus I am going to "wrap" the interior lengthwise with 3" strips of 3/4" plywood and then spray foam the entire depth prior to fastening the finish wainscoting to the plywood strips. All of this combined will make up some of the structural loss of removing the interior steel, but I believe the loss is small enough to begin with that what I'll end up with will be sound enough.

Also, for an effective vapor barrier I plan to fully coat the interior of the structure with elostomeric paint that will fill in and coat all surfaces prior to spraying in the foam. By the time I get to the wainscoting I *should* have a pretty sound structure that may be slightly less so than the original but certainly sound and ultimately very livable...I hope!

Thoughts?
Jman6631 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 09:46 AM   #99
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 11,196
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Ward/AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 78
Maybe someone should ask AmTran the same sort of question. I cant see how that perforated stuff would AT ALL be "structural".

My thoughts, Newmans_ GO for it.

I've been driving my metal tent shell around here and there and it hasn't seemed to mind the bumpy as hell half mile long "driveway" or anything. once I weld in some bracing with the roof raise it will likely be much stronger than it ever was, but that doesn't at all bother me.
I have more than a couple different friends around here in buses with the factory fiberglass and metal ceilings left in, and I just don't at all find that to be comfortable or livable for my wants and needs, so getting rid of the source of mold and the metal panels isn't even a question.
This thread is great, and I don't at all mind differences of opinion. I think we've all been keeping it civil as it should be. Its been nice on here lately, eh?

For the amount of living in the bus vs driving the bus I'll be doing, I know that the .000001% structure integrity loss will never even cross my mind other than in conversations such as this.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 12:04 PM   #100
Skoolie
 
Jman6631's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 189
Good point EastCoastCB,

I completely forgot to mention that I also intend to add structural framing after my roof raise not only in the ceiling but also in the walls to compensate for the removed interior panels as well as the additional height (for additional wind load, etc.). Might as well as I'm in there, right?


One other thing I'm doing that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet (and may not belong on this thread) is my intention to double stack some of the removed windows in the forward seating area. That way we'll all have better views of the mountains, waterfalls, rainbows, and unicorns on our way to Shangri La. Doing that will absolutely require additional framing.
Jman6631 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.