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Old 01-31-2016, 01:57 AM   #81
Mini-Skoolie
 
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I will do whatever work is necessary to create a functional, safe, and mobile living environment that works for me and my purposes. My needs and desires will differ greatly from the needs and desires of others. There just isnt' any solid evidence to say the removal of steel will not affect structural integrity, and there is yet to be a bus converted in the apparently ideal way.... I want to be able to use the bus, going up and down logging roads and whatnot. I don't want it or the things I install in it to become loose (as detailed in a post by a fellow member who removed the panels and did not replace them with more steel). The idea of using a closed cell foam spray in after the interior skin and old insulation have been removed is tempting, and it has been suggested (and I agree) that this foam would increase the rigidity of the bus structure. But the question then becomes, with lots of movement would this foam loosen and break? It's definitely not steel. And would it off-gas next to metal in such high temperatures? I really haven't decided how exactly I'm going to do this yet, which is why I bring these things up. I see there is a lot of consensus in terms of the superiority of spray foam insulation, and the need to remove the old panels and insulation, but I see no example of this in a practical sense, and put to the test. Unless I'm missing something....
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:14 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Removing the interior panels doesn't harm stuctural integrity.
Gotta break eggs to make an omelette.
... and hey, if buses are eggs, I like mine hard-boiled. It looks deceptively like the others, keeps it's structure, and you can save it for later and it's still gonna be tasty. I can't put an omlette in my pocket, you know??
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:27 AM   #83
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A bluebird engineer still just designs what the govt specifies.
How many coaches come with metal INTERIOR PANELS? Thats all they are.
Sure, its riveted to the body, but if that 20 whatever gauge is a structural element then its surely a very minor one.
Besides who in here is carrying peoples kids for the state? If you're not, then i think its a bit asinine to keep the metal. Sure its easier...
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:33 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by teambadass View Post
I will do whatever work is necessary to create a functional, safe, and mobile living environment that works for me and my purposes. My needs and desires will differ greatly from the needs and desires of others. There just isnt' any solid evidence to say the removal of steel will not affect structural integrity, and there is yet to be a bus converted in the apparently ideal way.... I want to be able to use the bus, going up and down logging roads and whatnot. I don't want it or the things I install in it to become loose (as detailed in a post by a fellow member who removed the panels and did not replace them with more steel). The idea of using a closed cell foam spray in after the interior skin and old insulation have been removed is tempting, and it has been suggested (and I agree) that this foam would increase the rigidity of the bus structure. But the question then becomes, with lots of movement would this foam loosen and break? It's definitely not steel. And would it off-gas next to metal in such high temperatures? I really haven't decided how exactly I'm going to do this yet, which is why I bring these things up. I see there is a lot of consensus in terms of the superiority of spray foam insulation, and the need to remove the old panels and insulation, but I see no example of this in a practical sense, and put to the test. Unless I'm missing something....
I have been hosting some kids staying in a bus they converted. They REALLY wish they had done the metal panel removal, but they wanted it done quicker.
Keep the metal, no one is making anyone remove it.
I'll be fulltiming and would hate a metal ceiling.

Your nose will thank you for fully converting a bus, too.
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by teambadass View Post
And would it off-gas next to metal in such high temperatures?
Our vehicles are not airtight, like houses buttoned up for winter. They leak, for the most part. Any outgassing that spray foam will do (and yes, there are potential issues about isocyanates in spray foam particularly during application), will escape with the air that's leaking. I would, IMHO, take the isocyanates than mold. Go back to the very first page of this thread, and look at the mold infiltration in fiberglass batting. I peeled off another panel the other day in Capt Obvious, immediately aft of the emergency door. The fiberglass is heading for more black from mold than yellow; the panel next to it has the fiberglass rotting away.

For that very reason, I'm leaving my passive vent in place, and will probably place a computer fan to exhaust and turn it into an active vent. (It's also dry when it rains)


Quote:
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I have been hosting some kids staying in a bus they converted. They REALLY wish they had done the metal panel removal, but they wanted it done quicker.
Our friends from One Nation under Goat, I take it?
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:10 AM   #86
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Yes. They have a great bus, and they built it for a purpose which for which it serves them well. But they definitely said if they'd had the time and had wanted to do a long term build they would love to have removed all of the panels and fiberglass.
If its just a weekend machine, or if one is in a hurry to get out and see America, then by all means- just leave the stuff in and get to enjoying life.
There is no perfect bus for everyone. I really meant it when I said everyone has their own wants and needs!
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Old 01-31-2016, 12:01 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Scooternj View Post
I peeled off another panel the other day in Capt Obvious, immediately aft of the emergency door. The fiberglass is heading for more black from mold than yellow; the panel next to it has the fiberglass rotting away.
Here's what I was talking about-

Tasty, tasty mold


More mold and decay-
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Old 01-31-2016, 12:47 PM   #88
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I really do appreciate the feedback from everyone. I will be toting a child around, my own, and I need the bus to be safe. It's super easy to discuss what works, what is ideal, but it's more of a challenge to dig into what isn't working/ what doesn't work with these conversions. I have no problem doing the work, but if the work I do compromises the bus, I don't want to do it... make sense? This is the only bus I have seen thus far with a full on spray foam insulation (http://wouldyoulookatthatbus.com/

I won't be doing a roof raise, and I won't be doing much integrated plumbing or propane. I wouldn't be adverse to insulating on top of the existing stuff and losing floor space if need be. I sent a message regarding the structure to the Bluebird bus corp., so hopefully they get back to me and I'll be able to put this question to rest once and for all! Thanks again for your input everyone.
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Old 01-31-2016, 01:56 PM   #89
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Can I just remove panel, install insulation then put original panels back? Judging by video I watched, there seems to be enough space for R10 insulation padding, perhaps as deep as R20 or R30 fiberglass insulation. I would be very conservative selecting insulating material, use only traditional industry proven and widely available material.

There is a rivet like bolt, and to my guess, it's like rivet-ted nut so that screws can used, alleviating future removal of paneling to inspect fungus growth. Problem with fungus is not that it's difficult to terminate, but it's presence is unknown unless paneling is removed. Remove paneling, inspect for mold to take appropriate action, then place paneling where it belong with a screw driver.

Sheet metal paneling looks cool to me, much more appealing and safer than dry wall material commonly used on modern home consturction. Due to nature of how dry walls are made, it's just impossible to completely eliminate formaldehyde in its substance. I would much rather be exposed to fungus than a toxic glue like stuff used to bond paper material. I hear this stuff is everywhere in modern home building.

If I'm limited on financial resources, I would much rather focus on mechanical aspect of bus; make sure bus will be operable when needed the most. I can't imagine stuck in the middle of harsh winter and the bus can't be move to more livable region, or naively landed in a hostile region and can't be moved quickly due to mechanical failure.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:31 PM   #90
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Kwang yi
You can do anything you want.
Money and time decides the extremes of your project. Do you want to be on the road a year after you buy then you spend money for someone to do it for you or are you in no hurry,have time to make decisions, and spend less money buy doing it yourself and education to support your final project.
You sound like a man trying to plan for every nut and bolt before you buy anything and I have been through some of that. I am a commercial building contractor and my wife is a residential architect so she designed the interior and I made it work wherever the sink or bed or stove is? Never been an engineer but can debate with most of them and my wife is doing good at here architect job. Everytime she ask me what I think I tell her the plumber,HVAC,not sparky is going to be happy but I know concrete and steel and she knows cad templates
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