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Old 08-22-2017, 05:39 PM   #1
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Question On Running Propane Line.

Can a person use a propane bulkhead fitting thru the web portion of a frame rail with flex hose on each side?? I need to get the gas to the otherside of the bus but don't want to run the line under the frame rails.

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Old 08-22-2017, 07:25 PM   #2
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I like to have as few connections as possible so I would run low pressure rubber propane hose through the rails with rubber grommets or the like for protection. Maybe even run the hose through some sort of protective flexible conduit.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:11 PM   #3
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if I were running propane lines under the bus where they are exposed and not inside the frame or such i would want them someshow sheathed.. similar to how the air-brakes lines are run on my DEV bus.. they are tied close and inside the frame rail.. much less likliehood of road debris coming up and slicing... im not sure if you can use steel braided lines for propane or not.. however they are designed for other petroleums at high pressure.. and those lines are pretty resilient to damage.. even though they cost.. id think thats one area where its worth it to be a bit spendy..
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:25 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T View Post
Can a person use a propane bulkhead fitting thru the web portion of a frame rail with flex hose on each side?? I need to get the gas to the otherside of the bus but don't want to run the line under the frame rails.
Are you running high-pressure propane, or is it after the regulator?

Not sure on Crown, but I can go over the frame rail and under the bus body in the gap the floor frame makes.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:29 PM   #5
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No more joints than necessary. I'd do it in a rigid steel pipe designed for propane use.
I heard old swimming pool vac hose makes for a great sleeve underneath buses.
You would need a gas fitter licence up here to run that as it would need be inspected before you are allowed to fill the tanks. And also to satisfy insurance company because they will ask who did it. And if you don't notify them, you have no insurance.

John
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:02 PM   #6
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Are you running high-pressure propane, or is it after the regulator?

Not sure on Crown, but I can go over the frame rail and under the bus body in the gap the floor frame makes.
After the regulater, I don't have enough gap between body & frame to run lines.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:59 PM   #7
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Why are you worried about running the propane under the frame rails? The pipe there would still be a good distance from the ground. I wouldn't be making holes through the middle of the frame rail, even if only because it would be bloody difficult to get through Crown's 90,000 PSI steel with a hole saw! I agree about keeping joints and connections to a minimum, the fewer the better to possibly leak.

From my regulator I run 1/2" Pro-Flex CSST gas pipe (it's a flexible stainless-steel corrugated gas hose/pipe, ideal for a bus conversion), under the frame rails and over the top of the grey tank, inside 3/4" EMT conduit for added protection, to the 5 branch distribution manifold on the other side of the bus. Each branch of the manifold also uses continuous runs of 1/2" Pro-Flex inside conduit directly to each appliance with no intermediate joints or connections. Pro-Flex also has a flexible steel reinforcement available for their CSST which I use in a few places. Where the CSST runs behind my right front wheel to get to the generator next to the door, it's inside conduit that in turn is inside some thick-wall stainless pipe, in other words nothing could damage it! (Not that I would have it pressurized with propane while driving anyway.)

CSST is so easy to use. You can bend it to go around things, it's lightweight and completely corrosion-proof, it can withstand vibration and movement better than rigid pipe, and it's easy to install.

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Old 08-22-2017, 11:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
Why are you worried about running the propane under the frame rails? The pipe there would still be a good distance from the ground. I wouldn't be making holes through the middle of the frame rail, even if only because it would be bloody difficult to get through Crown's 90,000 PSI steel with a hole saw! I agree about keeping joints and connections to a minimum, the fewer the better to possibly leak.

From my regulator I run 1/2" Pro-Flex CSST gas pipe (it's a flexible stainless-steel corrugated gas hose/pipe, ideal for a bus conversion), under the frame rails and over the top of the grey tank, inside 3/4" EMT conduit for added protection, to the 5 branch distribution manifold on the other side of the bus. Each branch of the manifold also uses continuous runs of 1/2" Pro-Flex inside conduit directly to each appliance with no intermediate joints or connections. Pro-Flex also has a flexible steel reinforcement available for their CSST which I use in a few places. Where the CSST runs behind my right front wheel to get to the generator next to the door, it's inside conduit that in turn is inside some thick-wall stainless pipe, in other words nothing could damage it! (Not that I would have it pressurized with propane while driving anyway.)

CSST is so easy to use. You can bend it to go around things, it's lightweight and completely corrosion-proof, it can withstand vibration and movement better than rigid pipe, and it's easy to install.

John
I'lll have to look up this CSST
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:30 PM   #9
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From my research and discussions with LP professionals, it is not only a bad idea, but EXTREMELY dangerous to run LP flexible rubber lines inside of ANY kind of conduit or sealed chase. The rubber hoses made and used for LP are designed to allow some bleeding thru of the propane. Not to mention the vibrations of the inside hose/ pipe. Therefore if inside a conduit, it will build up. Any spark and bye bye bus. Everything I can find recommends or even requires LP systems to be run via galvanized pipe with fittings to the rubber hoses or copper only after the galvanized black pipe has entered the RV. I know not everyone shares the concern and have seen many debates on cost/ difficulty/ practicality.......but for me and my loved ones that will be USING my unit, I choose their safety over a couple bucks.


http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
Gasco Propane: Propane Properties, Safety and Handling.
Propane 101 - Promoting Propane Safety Through Understanding
http://www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp?ca ... kie_test=1
Coach Care | Cummins Sales and Service

BE SAFE. LP systems are the single most dangerous part of any RV build.

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Old 08-26-2017, 04:40 PM   #10
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Defjr333, I strongly agree with the rigid line plan. But, long ago, I decided that the right side of Brunhilde would be my "wet" side and the "dry" side (electrical) would be on the left (driver's) side. No chance of cross-contamination.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:59 PM   #11
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I remain to be convinced that a rigid pipe with umpteen fittings is intrinsically safer in a moving and vibrating vehicle than a single run of continuous uninterrupted CSST. For example, to get a rigid pipe from my regulator to the manifold would need at least six fittings and separate pieces of pipe to go down and up and around and under frame rails and over the grey tank, and to get a rigid line from the manifold all the way forward to the generator would take more than a dozen fittings and pieces of pipe. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to deal with frame rails, bulkheads, other existing pipes and whatnots that can't be relocated, and everything else that bus conversion entails. However, we are converting vehicles that were never intended to be anything except school buses, so necessarily we have to compromise and make allowances for things that RV manufacturers can design out from day one because they are essentially starting with a clean sheet of paper. (I think that converting a bus is much more difficult than building an RV from scratch!)

As is often the case with rules and regulations, they simply don't acknowledge modern developments that render older technologies obsolete or irrelevant. Take for example headlights - US vehicles must by law have crappy worthless headlights that conform to arcane SAE/DOT requirements, even though the rest of the world has moved on to using European-spec "E-Code" (or similar) headlights that are incomparably better, but they are still technically illegal in this country. CSST is a newer technology than NFPA 1192 ever envisioned, so according to "the code" it isn't allowed even though it is demonstrably better in certain applications such as vehicles or boats. How many years or decades until the regulations and rules are re-written to reflect current changes and developments?

One more thing. Where exactly is it written that LPG rubber hose is porous and is actually intended to leak? My local propane distributor told me that the outer layer of LPG hose such as Parker 7132 has micro-perforations only to allow any propane released from a ruptured inner hose membrane to dissipate without causing bubbles under the hose surface, but that will happen only of the hose is much older than is safe to use or has been badly damaged. Ordinarily no propane should be bleeding through any rubber hose. I know that rubber is itself porous to air (that's why bicycle tires and balloons deflate over time), but to LPG as well? Our propane forklifts at work are certified for use inside buildings - surely if all their hoses constantly leaked they would be unsafe inside any closed environment? I've never smelled propane near them even after a weekend of inactivity.

John
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T View Post
Can a person use a propane bulkhead fitting thru the web portion of a frame rail with flex hose on each side?? I need to get the gas to the otherside of the bus but don't want to run the line under the frame rails.
i have used bulkhead connections for propane powered engines, air systems and also for fuel heaters (in tank water lines) they are also used for large electrical lines never had one leak or fail they are required in places on trucks as a safety measure so i would go with your idea as it would be the best option for you i will be using them on mine as far as the rubber hose idea, every failure from vibration i have seen was with a rubber or braided hose
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:26 PM   #13
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I hear that. Im not trying to bust anyones beach balls, just trying to convey the large risk. Each person must decide for them self the degree of risk and build quality(cost). But just to clarify, the statements of running LP in a conduit has nothing to do with electrical lines or wet/ dry side. Simply running any LP lines, flexible or rigid inside a conduit risk the rupture of the inside line allowing LP to build up inside the conduit. Any leak or spark near the conduit(cigs, static, or electrical) could be bad news. I was going to do the rubber line in a conduit till LP pro said not good idea at all. I even asked about copper in conduit with foam or insulation to prevent vibrations(the biggest cause of LP failure on RVs) and he replied the difficulty of repairs or access in future. All in all, I think galvanized black steel mounted underneath, as high as I can get it, with a metal "skid plate" mounted under should be the best for protection of road debris and safety. But I will undoubtedly admit, every install presents its own challenges and difficulties. Im just trying to give others the ideas and info given to me so each of us can make our own informed decisions on whats best for them. Happy Building All!!
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #14
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Why the galvanized pipe? I was told not to use. Just regular sch40 black pipe is fine.

Some places don't allow for galvanized to be used in gas lines.

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Old 08-27-2017, 02:27 PM   #15
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Yes black is required for code.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:17 PM   #16
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Been off the site for awhile, thanks for the replies & information
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:59 PM   #17
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Here's some pertinent thoughts from our boating brethren: Propane Line: All Copper or Rubber? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Boats have bilges, buses don't. That's why I prefer to follow ABYC recommendations for propane instead of RVIA and NFPA. What works in a boat is more than good enough for a bus, but not vice versa.

John
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Old 09-06-2017, 03:19 PM   #18
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If boat is better then why are the codes different?
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Old 09-06-2017, 04:40 PM   #19
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I have seen many people do it with just the rubber hoses. I admit, my ambulance conversion I used rubber hoses for lil buddy heater and stovetop. On that conversion it was all trial and error and cheap as possible. This one will be for full timing and house EVERYTHING I OWN. There is the difference to me. Just try to prevent the ability of LP pooling in low areas and common sense goes a long way! BTW....I NEVER had any problems in my ambulance LP system. Just trying to do the best job I can.
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Old 09-06-2017, 04:49 PM   #20
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If boat is better then why are the codes different?
A boat is an inherently more dangerous environment to install propane into. So, the installation & safety standards are different.

A bus has many "holes" in the floor & lower walls that give propane an opportunity to escape rather than pool up. A boat is a bit tupperware bowl that will hold the propane waiting for an opportunity to ignite.

If you want that safety factor i your boat just drill a bunch of holes in the bottom.....
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