Recurring battery problems

[Forest-Bus]

Alright so we have been having some weird issues with batteries, and was hoping someone on here might have some advice.

Bought a brand new battery and was working fine in the bus and then about a day goes by, we try to start it, it makes a few chugs and then a click and then stops. Then the battery isn't even detected. So we tried a jump start and that worked fine and we tried to charge it up for a bit but then once we unplugged the cables and tried to start it, it wouldn't start up. So we look the battery to get tested and the battery tested perfectly fine. We tested the volts, cold cranking amps and load tested it and everything was fine, but it wouldn't start the bus!!!

So we got a refund on that battery and we got a new one, and the new one started the bus fine again. Then the bus was driven about 600 km, left over night with the battery unplugged, and in the morning, the bus didn't start. Almost the same thing happened again, but this time it sounded like it was almost going to start but then nope, nothing and the brake suddenly seized up at that point, unable to press down on it. What is going on!? Everyone we talk to about it seems to be baffled.

Any ideas would be so helpful, thanks!

[Tango]

What engine and how many cold cranking amps on the batteries in question?

[Forest-Bus]

1991 International. The first battery had 950 CCA and then the second we had to go elsewhere to buy it and the closest we could find was 850 CCA.

[Forest-Bus]

Also, heating system doesn't work, don't know if this is new however. I don't know if they ever worked.

[Robin97396]

What size engine did you say that was?

[Docsgsxr]

The brakes and starter are 2 random occurrences at the same time.

Good battery + bad ground = Starter not energizing

Good battery + good ground = Starter energizing

Good battery + good ground + bad starter = Starter not energizing

Are your brakes air or hydraulic?

[Docsgsxr]

Also, what condition are the terminal clamps in? Are they old and corroded? has the battery wires broke or frayed?

Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start........

[Forest-Bus]

Alright, so I am newbie so bear with me but...

ENGINE- 1991 International. I believe the engine is 6 cylinder, which i think is not the usual for a school bus? (usually 8?)

CLAMPS- The clamps don't look too bad, like how clean should they look? They also aren't really clamps, they just slip over and are secured with a nut. Should they be clean and shiny looking?

BREAKS- Not sure if the breaks are air or hydraulic, I think they are air.

BATTERY WIRES- The wires are okay, you can kind of see the inner wires on the negative beneath the rubber casing whereas you cannot on the positive.

Also, the bus is currently not with me. My partner drove it up to northern Ontario last night as we are starting a season of tree planting and he had to leave it in town while he went out to bush camp and will be back to trouble shoot tomorrow, so i'm trying to do some research to report back to him.

So i'm thinking the first thing to try is cleaning the connections of the wires going to the battery and the engine, and then making sure there is nothing interrupting those connections. Is that a good call?

[Dapplecreek]

Originally Posted by Forest-Bus

Alright, so I am newbie so bear with me but...
...
BREAKS- Not sure if the breaks are air or hydraulic, I think they are air.
...

So i'm thinking the first thing to try is cleaning the connections...

Dear Forest-Bus,

Please accept this as a friendly arm about the shoulders and a well-intentioned correction. I'm saying this as a noob myself: I have no bus, but I've been doing a lot of reading (including the CDL handbook). I mean only the best for you and your family, and have no criticism (hey, you and I are new to this) but great concern.

I think your first thing to do is to find out what type of brakes you have, and how to do a trucker's/busdriver's pre-trip inspection. You have lifesaving equipment which could potentially take out your family if you don't know how to use it properly. Brakes are not to be trifled with, and I'm a bit concerned that you're driving (or would be if the batteries behaved) without this piece.

I sincerely wish you the best.

[Forest-Bus]

No worries, my partner is much more knowledgeable on this stuff, just trying to gather some info for him.

The break lines were just replaced when and they we're working completely fine until this second battery incident, so i'm not really sure what that could mean.

[Jolly Roger]

Battery clamps need to be bright and shiny and the clamp needs to tighten down enough that you can not move them (twist,turn,wiggle) by hand at a minimum.
The ground cable wiring should not be visible unless it is one in a clear cable coating that they make for show cars/vehicles and if that is the case then your ground cable is probably the wrong size?
Without knowing what engine you have we can only guess?
Another option you can try when you get to your bus.
If your battery is good and the bus starts you can hold a screw driver to the back center of the alternator it should have some magnetism (feel like there is a small magnet in it) not going to hold a regular screw driver but you should be able to tell.
If you have to jump the battery to get the bus started then do just enough to start the bus and remove the jumper cables then remove the positive/red cable to the battery. After a few? If the alternator is charging then the bus keeps running and if not the bus will Shutdown therefore you need a new alternator and also an excuse to spend a little more money to upgrade. To a higher output alternator if you plan on additions later.

[Forest-Bus]

Ok, thanks a lot! Will definitely clean up the connections and make sure they are super secure.

Would you recommend getting the casing for the wire replaced then? The casing isn't broken or anything, about an inch of the inner wires are just visible near the end.

Will try this with the alternator too. If there is some magnetism thats a good thing?

[Robin97396]

You can usually get a battery terminal cleaner for a buck or so. Primarily you need to clean the contact areas where the clamp contacts to the battery post, not the entire post clamp. Shiny is pretty though.
You could also take a look at your negative ground to the frame which occasionally corrodes during periods of non-use. Just unbolt it from the frame, polish the contact areas with a piece of sandpaper or a file between the frame and cable end. Reattach the cable to the frame snugly and smear on a bit of grease over the connection for oxidation prevention. Good for another 20 years.
I am not the best mechanic here, but I am trying to explore the inexpensive fixes before looking at alternator replacement. On the other hand if you don't already have a high output alternator it is something you should explore if you're going to carry house batteries.

[crazycal]

[Forest-Bus]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

You can usually get a battery terminal cleaner for a buck or so. Primarily you need to clean the contact areas where the clamp contacts to the battery post, not the entire post clamp. Shiny is pretty though.
You could also take a look at your negative ground to the frame which occasionally corrodes during periods of non-use. Just unbolt it from the frame, polish the contact areas with a piece of sandpaper or a file between the frame and cable end. Reattach the cable to the frame snugly and smear on a bit of grease over the connection for oxidation prevention. Good for another 20 years.
I am not the best mechanic here, but I am trying to explore the inexpensive fixes before looking at alternator replacement. On the other hand if you don't already have a high output alternator it is something you should explore if you're going to carry house batteries.

Alright, thanks a ton for the advice Will pick up some cleaner and be sure that negative ground to the frame is good.

[Docsgsxr]

Alternator has nothing to do with bus starting on a brand new battery. You have a disconnect somewhere between the starter and the battery. That was my point.

If you have wires showing through the insulation on the cable, replace the cables. They can arc to ground and short out if you have a tight battery compartment. Shorting out could possibly lead to a fire. Noone wants to see you driving a 30+ foot flaming 27,000 lb torpedoe.....well maybe Cal does....

Fix one problem at a time. You will get 600 different check this comments about 4 issues in 1 day.

Brake lines are hydraulic, air hoses are air brakes. Does your bus run for 15 minutes and give off that hissing noise a semi does when it parks???

-Doc

[crazycal]

well maybe Cal does....

I don't want to see any such thing. My feelings about this are if you don't know if you do or don't have air brakes not BREAKS, you have no business sitting behind the wheel. All else doesn't bother me at all.

[Forest-Bus]

Cal- I don't drive it, my partner does, so don't you worry my sir. I agree with you - I have no business behind the wheel. He's out of service with the bus in northern Ontario and i'm trying to trouble shoot for him.

[Forest-Bus]

Originally Posted by Docsgsxr

Alternator has nothing to do with bus starting on a brand new battery. You have a disconnect somewhere between the starter and the battery. That was my point.

If you have wires showing through the insulation on the cable, replace the cables. They can arc to ground and short out if you have a tight battery compartment. Shorting out could possibly lead to a fire. Noone wants to see you driving a 30+ foot flaming 27,000 lb torpedoe.....well maybe Cal does....

Fix one problem at a time. You will get 600 different check this comments about 4 issues in 1 day.

Brake lines are hydraulic, air hoses are air brakes. Does your bus run for 15 minutes and give off that hissing noise a semi does when it parks???

-Doc

No, it doesn't make any hissing noise that I have noticed, it runs fine when it starts.

[Docsgsxr]

Originally Posted by crazycal

I don't want to see any such thing. My feelings about this are if you don't know if you do or don't have air brakes not BREAKS, you have no business sitting behind the wheel. All else doesn't bother me at all.

Just teasing bub, just teasing......