Retrofitting a retarder

[Ernst]

I have a 1998 BB TCFE400 with a Cummins B235 and an Allison MT643.
When we're on holiday in mountainous areas (France, Germany, Austria, even Belgium or Luxemburg) I often feel the miss of an engine brake or retarder.

Voith told me they can't fit a retarder on my drive shaft "because it is American" (everything is metric, so I think this is BS!)

Has anyone ever converted an Allison MT643 to a MTB643 or 644? What are your experiences?

[EastCoastCB]

Very cool location!

I too am interested in this subject... I know there is a place in Colorado that specializes in driveline retarders and fitting them.

[rvingoffgrid]

they don't make retarders for the older non electronic trans. they do however make a electric retarder that goes on the differential. called a thelma. i believe its made across the pond as they say, germany maybe? not sure of its origin. some of the buses i have converted had them on them the dina mexican made buses had them they worked well but where prone to problems like all german electronics, they are pretty good with mechanical things but electronics are best left to americans or japanese. but i would think you could get one pretty cheep if you can find a source might start looking for a bus junk yard like nimco, and see what they charge for a used one off a old dina. i found this on the web http://www.telmausa.com

[Ernst]

Thanks! I'll look into Telma again. Last time I searched, they only had 24 V versions. As you say, quite affordable on different truck scrap yards. There hardly are any trucks in Europe with a 12 V installation

[EastCoastCB]

I could have sworn Allison built an "R" version of the 643... and that the R stood for "retarder".

[EastCoastCB]

The MTB643 has the output retarder.

[Ernst]

So how can I change a MT643 into a R or B version....?

[EastCoastCB]

Truck repair Denver CO: Truck, Bus and RV repair Denver CO TMS Truck & Bus Services

KLAM Magnetic Retarder | Bus Driveline for Sale | Davey Coach

I think you'd be looking at a tranny swap...
Allison mt 643 - RVTalk Forum

MTB 643 — United Transmission Exchange is a Full Service Independent Facility with over thirty years of experience rebuilding Allison Transmissions

[Timelord]

Be aware that UTXexchange is currently hacked and malicious as indicated by Google search and Avast Antivirus.

[Ernst]

My Avast told me so....

Thank you for the links. I'll look into it tomorrow.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Timelord

Be aware that UTXexchange is currently hacked and malicious as indicated by Google search and Avast Antivirus.

here is the info from the page-

Automatic Models MTB 643 up to 210 nhp (157 kW)
Transit Bus/Shuttle Bus

Net input power (max).............................210 hp (157 kW)
Input speed range................................2000 - 4000 rpm
Net input torque (max)........................590 lb ft (800 N�m)
Vehicle weight.......................Up to 37,480 lbs (17,001 kg)

Mounting

Direct..............SAE 2 flywheel housing with flex plate drive

Torque converter

Type..........................Single-stage, 3-element multiphase
Stall torque ratio.........TC 350-3.04; TC 360-2.86; TC 370-2.40;
TC 378-2.27; TC 380-1.82
Lockup Clutch, automatic..................Effective in 3rd & 4th

Gearing

Type..........................Constant mesh, spur type planetary

Range Ratios*:
First...................................3.58:1
Second..................................2.09:1
Third...................................1.39:1
Fourth..................................1.00:1
Reverse.................................5.67:1
* Gear ratio does not include torque converter ratio.

Power takeoff provision

Converter driven (SAE 6-bolt)
Location............................Right side (viewed from rear)
Drive gear ratio................All ranges--1.00 x turbine speed
Drive gear rating.............................300 lb ft (407 N�m)

Oil system

Oil type.........................................Dexro n II�, C 4
Capacity (excluding external circuits)....18 U.S. qts (17 liters)
(with std. oil pan)
Filter............Full flow, replaceable element, remote mounted
Cooler............................................ Remote mounted
(Filter and cooler not furnished on transmission assembly but are supplied
by vehicle manufacturer.)

Size

Length..........................................30 .4 in (773 mm)
Width...........................................19 .3 in (489 mm)
Height..........................(with 5.1" pan) 22.4 in (568 mm)
Weight (dry)....................................510 lbs (231 kg)

[EastCoastCB]

Lol try this one instead-

http://www.5z8.info/stealgmailpasswo...3yh_worm]Voith Turbo Web Services

[Timelord]

Uh... Did you mean to post that link?

[Timelord]

Oh you smartass. :P

ShadyURL - Don't just shorten your URL, make it suspicious and frightening.

[opus]

Originally Posted by rvingoffgrid

they don't make retarders for the older non electronic trans.

[waves] I have a retarder on a non-electronic 643.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Timelord

Oh you smartass. :P

ShadyURL - Don't just shorten your URL, make it suspicious and frightening.

Sorry, boredom in the FL rains got the better of me!

[s2mikon]

I know that this is a very old thread, but does anyone need info on the Allison output retarders?

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

... does anyone need info on the Allison output retarders?

Vague...but interesting. Do you mean info on adding them, or do you happen to have retarder diagnostic/repair expertise? If the latter, then yes! We have a retarder that shows high temp in cruise and almost feels like it's not releasing immediately after a stop (meaning the fluid isn't evacuating promptly?). I'll be digging into the valve shortly, but if you have insight I'd welcome it. Thanks!

[s2mikon]

I have the Allison technicians guide inspection/analysis book and the SAE Technical Papers on the output retarder. This is for the 600/700 series transmissions. How is your unit controlled?

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

I have the Allison technicians guide inspection/analysis book and the SAE Technical Papers on the output retarder. This is for the 600/700 series transmissions. How is your unit controlled?

Thanks - unfortunately, ours is a B400R...