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Old 09-21-2015, 08:38 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
That bus has a trophy!

I don't know how municipal buses compare to school buses in terms of their robust construction... again it probably varies by manufacturer and model.
And to think that Regressive Insurance would have written a policy on the S&S in the above picture, but not one for one made from a transit bus.

I forgot to mention one thing I read in Ben Rosander's Select & Convert Your Bus into a Motorhome on a Shoestring: he recommends staggering your roof cuts rib to rib so the splicing doesn't create a "hinge" point where the sidewalls could bend. Not a substitute for the overlapping mentioned earlier in this thread: I think they'd complement each other.

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Old 09-22-2015, 05:07 PM   #102
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Ok so onto bolting. The wings on my ribs aren't very long, so bolting through those may be tricky. Would it be fine to just bolt the interior/sides of the hat channel to the rib? Also what about attaching those rectangular tubes from one side since I already have them? Overkill/unnecessary? It would make riveting the sheet metal on easier, because I could blind rivet through the tubes. just a thought!

Mostly just focused on the stability of just bolting down the interior side of the hat channel/rib
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:48 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intalleyvision View Post
Ok so onto bolting. The wings on my ribs aren't very long, so bolting through those may be tricky. Would it be fine to just bolt the interior/sides of the hat channel to the rib? Also what about attaching those rectangular tubes from one side since I already have them? Overkill/unnecessary? It would make riveting the sheet metal on easier, because I could blind rivet through the tubes. just a thought!

Mostly just focused on the stability of just bolting down the interior side of the hat channel/rib
If you don't have room to bolt through the outsides of the ribs, they were made wrong / too small.

For temporary holding before adding the outside skin, yes I mostly added bolts to the inside of the ribs.

For a finished product, the bolts or rivets need to be in the outside flange of the ribs / hat channel.

Because I strapped the inside of the bus, I have bolts in both the inside and the outside flanges of the ribs. Most are in the outside flange where they belong.

Nat
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:16 PM   #104
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I was hoping some people could talk to a few things I was trying to figure out. Now I have to start by saying I don't have my bus yet and thus don't know what It will be like inside, I'm 6'2"-6'3" if i stand up straight. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to raise the roof just a bit. and I would raise it just behind the driver seat as others have also posted about.

My big thing is that I want to keep the overall bus impression alive by not making the windows any larger than they already are. So my question is, is there a way to add the raised part just above the window line keeping all the window components there? I know I would have to find a sheet metal artist to bend some metal and fill in the gaps left.

I want to also add about finding a welder. I was trying to have a custom rack built for my truck and after going around and talking to many welding shops around town I finally got referred to a guy who is a RETIRED welder. he still welds out of his garage and will do the work for half the cost. So instead of $100 an hour he does it for $50!!! and its the same quality welds from any of those shops.
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:44 PM   #105
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Mig welders are cheap and easy to use. If you plan on much metal work, they are worth investing in.
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:52 PM   #106
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My big thing is that I want to keep the overall bus impression alive by not making the windows any larger than they already are. So my question is, is there a way to add the raised part just above the window line keeping all the window components there? I know I would have to find a sheet metal artist to bend some metal and fill in the gaps left.
Speaking from my limited experience with 1990+ Blue Birds, sure, you could keep all the windows. Probably do the cut somewhere in the middle- to lower-window area as most people do so that there's a respectable tail of the roof bows to splice with (rather than cutting at the tops of the windows). After the lift was re-joined you could re-install the windows at whatever height you preferred. Check the details before getting too far along: if you were to use the custom hat channel method several of us have used, you'd want to be sure the additional thickness didn't shrink the space to where windows couldn't fit back in. In that case, maybe have the hat channel sized to go inside the factory parts rather than outside.

There's usually an "eyebrow" in the metal just above each window so that water drips past the windows rather than running onto and into them. I'm not sure what to suggest about that -- whether to somehow remove the originals and have new eyebrows made to go above the windows..? It's something to think about.
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:50 PM   #107
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Just get hat channel made..........

Nat
How much does that cost. And is that he 4 inch piece you took off of yours and took it to get it done ?
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:22 PM   #108
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Don't know whether nat_ster will be back to answering questions soon or not, so I'll give my thoughts since I used the hat channel idea he proposed. If I remember the numbers correctly.. I think I had twelve pieces each 10 feet long custom-made for about $330. It was about half material and half labor.

Regarding your question on Nat's build thread: I think you could do the extension at any convenient height on the wall, and could keep the windows too. I think there are two things you'd have to figure out. One is whether hat channel stacked on the factory stuff makes the window space too narrow; the second is whether the added thickness in the wall in that area will cause trouble for whatever wall build-up you have in mind. For the first problem (if the horizontal space becomes too narrow) maybe you could have hat channel made to fit inside the factory stuff rather than outside.
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:43 PM   #109
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Ok... let me process this information and Ill get back to you with additional questions FOR SURE.

Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:27 PM   #110
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This thread was very helpful and augmented my research I have been doing about roof rises. I am still very much in planning mode, but am considering how to make a loft style bed much like tiny houses. So far its not jumping out as possible given the base floor and frame height. But that's whats nice about being in the research phase I can dream/plan all over the place. I am new to the forums so maybe some more digging can give ideas. Ill be watching to see this threads activity and the linked builds. Thank you
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:24 AM   #111
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I think there was someone on here that did the roof raise by cutting BELOW the window line and lifting the roof and windows.
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:24 AM   #112
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If anyone is looking for it, i believe it's familywagon's thread that cut below the windows http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/th...agon-8577.html

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I think there was someone on here that did the roof raise by cutting BELOW the window line and lifting the roof and windows.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:59 PM   #113
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Think I will do smaller hat channel inside and larger outside.

Reason 1, I only want to do this 1 time.

Reason 2, my co-pilot is a beautiful blonde haired, blue eyed 4 year old princess named Olivia.

Reason 3, if I have to manipulate the manufacturer's original design, Imma damn sure gone make it a missile silo grade improvement.

Rivets and a Flux core wire welder will be my bonding items. And if anyone wants to know, I am a damn good welder, I can even do it under water!!! (1 time at band camp....)

-Doc
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:19 PM   #114
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You'll get no criticism here, at least not these days.
Sounds like a good plan.
Post pics, of course, and carry on, goodly sir.

I'm not even a good welder, but my neighbor and several friends are!
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:14 PM   #115
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I just raised my roof yesterday. I cut the ribs about in the middle of the window space and jacked it up just under two feet. I used 1 inch square tubing with 1/8 thick walls. I also used 1/8 filler rod to fill the gap before welding. I will then weld 3/4 angle to the tubing between the original rib pieces so I can rivet the panels on. My mig decided to go south on me part way through and I can't order the part till Monday so I guess I'll have to stick weld the rest. I have some pics and will be taking more tomorrow so I'll be posting them soon.
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:26 PM   #116
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I just raised my roof yesterday. I cut the ribs about in the middle of the window space and jacked it up just under two feet. I used 1 inch square tubing with 1/8 thick walls. I also used 1/8 filler rod to fill the gap before welding. I will then weld 3/4 angle to the tubing between the original rib pieces so I can rivet the panels on. My mig decided to go south on me part way through and I can't order the part till Monday so I guess I'll have to stick weld the rest. I have some pics and will be taking more tomorrow so I'll be posting them soon.
Please do !!!
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:39 PM   #117
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Congrats!!!



Now- POST THOSE PICS!
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:15 PM   #118
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A recent experience reminded me of this thread and Nat's recommendation that amateur/wannabe welders use bolts instead (along with proper channel material):

'Bout a month ago, I was swapping bumpers between two Dodge B-series vans. Some bolts on the donor van wouldn't, well, unbolt, so long story short it was easier in the long run to cut the bolt heads off. Since the donor van was a parts vehicle it wasn't so critical I left all the bolts intact. And damn, getting those bolts cut was a b**ch! On that steamy day I thought I'd sweat enough to make a replica of the Dead Sea on my driveway.

Based on that experience, I think that if a car hit the tail of the van sideways, at the edge of the bumper, the result would have been a mangled bumper, held fast in place by those tough bolts.

Oh, and there is a grading system for bolts, designated by marks embossed on the head. Some research via mechanic's books or Google will help you avoid inadequate fasteners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
I feel cutting the roof compromises structure.

Think about the arch. Then you will understand.

When I cut my hat channels, I had sections of floor drop. They were being held up by the roof.

The roof being one piece is the strongest part of the bus.

The roof needs to stay one piece.

Nat
Wayne Corp. used stem-to-stern metal skins externally and internally, at least on its Lifeguard series. Though the ostensive purpose was to keep the thing from splitting open and creating flesh-slicing edges, I'm disinclined to cut-and-splice my Lifeguard's roof any more than I'd absolutely have to.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:03 PM   #119
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If you look at how it was manufactured it's all screws and rivets... tens of thousands of them! but you'd be hard-pressed to find a weld anywhere. Single piece steel ribs bent into U shapes and steel cross members provide the overall shape while the steel skin inside and outside provides the rigidity. Then thousands of screws and rivets keep the skin firmly attached and if one or more starts to give at least they are well reinforced by sheer numbers. Welds on the other hand tend to focus failure at strategic points and then fail catastrophically.

Of course as soon as you start talking about a raise you are cutting all of that material and attempting to splice in pieces and expect it all to be as strong and rigid as the original design which is never going to be reality. You can however do a very good job and I think that was one of the things Nat_ster was very adamant about.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:05 PM   #120
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If you look at how it was manufactured it's all screws and rivets... tens of thousands of them! but you'd be hard-pressed to find a weld anywhere. Single piece steel ribs bent into U shapes and steel cross members provide the overall shape while the steel skin inside and outside provides the rigidity. Then thousands of screws and rivets keep the skin firmly attached and if one or more starts to give at least they are well reinforced by sheer numbers. Welds on the other hand tend to focus failure at strategic points and then fail catastrophically.

Of course as soon as you start talking about a raise you are cutting all of that material and attempting to splice in pieces and expect it all to be as strong and rigid as the original design which is never going to be reality. You can however do a very good job and I think that was one of the things Nat_ster was very adamant about.
Properly welded, two pieces of steel become one.

Look at how a trailer hitch is made. WHy aren't they bolted together? because they're properly welded, making them one piece. Sure they're bolted ON, you can't go welding to the frame.
A good weld is not a failure point.
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