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Old 09-23-2012, 11:06 AM   #21
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol
... If you've had any interesting "shock" issues in the past or recently, please post them here. I'm trying for a grant that will allow me to make No~Shock~Zone a national electrical safety training program, so any examples you can provide will help with the process...
I think we are trying to NOT have any examples!
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:35 AM   #22
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornaschinske
I think we are trying to NOT have any examples!
I hope that's true... but I keep getting arguments on other forums to the effect that "a little shock" is OK. Or there's only a hot-skin condition "when it's raining". I think that since many of you guys (and gals) are DIY types, you know the importance of understanding your subject matter BEFORE you dive in and start modifying systems. Any shock, no matter how small, is a sign that something is seriously wrong and should be investigated immediately.

It's amazing to me that buyers who have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on new Class-A RVs are the most argumentative against testing campground power for proper grounding and voltage. They somehow think that spending big money "insulates" them from getting shocked, and I know that's simply NOT the case. The most expensive RV you can buy can be hot-skin electrified by plugging into a mis-wired outlet, and there's currently no Surge Protector or Voltage Protector on the market that will check for hot-skin voltages automatically and disconnect you from power. Such a device just doesn't exist.

Please post your "shock stores" for my database.

Mike Sokol
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:59 PM   #23
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Here's an article I just wrote about how electricians can get confused when hooking up a home 30-amp/120-volt RV outlet (TT-30) and sometimes mis-wire it with 240-volts. Because it "looks" like a 30-Amp/240-Volt Dryer outlet, they sometimes miss the note on the front of the outlet with a 125-Volt rating. http://www.noshockzone.org/accidentally ... lt-outlet/

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Old 04-03-2013, 11:30 PM   #24
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Thanks for doing this Mike! What great information.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:11 AM   #25
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

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Originally Posted by wmkbailey
I have a freind that bought a Surge Guard. If it gives him a green light eveything is good and he doesn't need to know any more. I'm trying to get him to read this.
Close, but not 100% true. I've confirmed with all the major "Surge/Voltage Protector" manufacturers that their surge protectors should stop 240-volts from getting into your RV in this type of mis-wiring scenario. However, some tech departments are predicting their surge protectors will be "smoked" by 240-volts, and die in the process of saving your RV's electrical system. Still a good choice since a Surge Guard is a lot cheaper than your RV electrical system, including appliances.

However, there are no surge protectors on the market (and I've confirmed this with all the major players) that will detect or protect you from an RV hot-skin condition caused by plugging into what I call a Reverse Polarity Bootleg Ground Outlet, or RPBG for short. This illegal connection results when an electrician wants to upgrade old, ungrounded wiring to include a grounded receptacle. By strapping the Ground screw to the Neutral screw, he makes a "bootleg" or "false" ground, which while in violation of the code, is not immediately dangerous. However, if the black (hot) and white (neutral) wires are swapped in the walls somewhere, now the Hot blade of the outlet is at 0 volts, while both the Neutral and Ground blades are at 120 volts. So anything you plug into this RPBG outlet with a grounded power cord will have its chassis electrified to a full 120 volts and 20 or 30 amps of current. The crazy thing is that your RV and/or appliances will all appear to operate normally in this state. The only way to know for sure is to use something like a Fluke VoltAlert to double check the outlet ground BEFORE plugging in, and checking the skin of the RV for hot-skin AFTER plugging in. See http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/07/friends ... -mike.html for the original article which should be updated in a few weeks with this new information about Surge Protectors.

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Old 04-09-2013, 06:17 PM   #26
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Here's my latest NoShockZone article about why a portable generator will sometimes "trip" a voltage protector telling you there's an open ground. It's all about the generator's Ground-Neutral internal bond (or lack of bonding). Included is a cheap ($2) way to build your own kludge plug to properly G-N bond Honda and Yamaha inverter generators. Please read http://www.noshockzone.org/generator-gr ... l-bonding/

Your moderator may want to post this along with my 240-volt miswiring article at the top of the page as a sticky.

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Old 04-09-2013, 07:48 PM   #27
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Great article! Thanks.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #28
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by bus-bro
Great article! Thanks.
Thanks very much. Please pass it on to everyone you know with an RV.

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Old 04-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #29
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

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Originally Posted by Part-time
That cottage had something like 2 or 3 add-ons, wich would explain the problem being limited to only one part of the building.
Yup.... It's almost impossible to wire a new building with an RPBG, simply because electricians are matching color-to-color on the wiring. And even if they accidentally swap the hot and neutral screws on the outlet, then a "reverse-polarity" outlet with a proper "ground" is still intrinsically safe. However, when you upgrade to a "grounded" outlet to an old "ungrounded" electrical system, that's when RPBG outlets are VERY possible. So if you see what looks like a brand new outlet in an old house, stage, dock, church, or campground, that's when you want to be suspicious and check the ground safety with a Non-Contact Voltage Tester.

I just got off the phone with my counterpart in the marine industry who told me there was a recent electrocution at a boat dock, and they discovered that some 200+ power pedestals on the dock did NOT have an actual ground wire but did have what looked like "grounded plugs". Closer inspection revealed the original electrician had simple jumped the neutral wire to the ground screw on the new "grounded" receptacles that made a bootleg ground, and that after the electrocution (which they blamed on the boat's wiring) they simply checked all the boat dock receptacles with a 3-light outlet tester and signed off as everything being safe. I'm betting the original electrocution was caused by an RPBG, and the inspectors don't know that a Reverse Polarity Bootleg Ground can even exist, nor are they aware that a 3-light tester can indicate the outlet is wired correctly, when it's actually wired as an RPBG with the ground and neutral contacts at 120-volts above earth potential. We're investigating this boat dock electrocution to try to prevent a future death.

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Old 04-10-2013, 04:48 PM   #30
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Re: RV Electrical Safety

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