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Old 04-24-2017, 12:51 PM   #1
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Spray foam and water/electric lines...

I've got most of my OEM flooring and seats out. Some clean up and paint and I'll be ready to start talking insulation. I'm thinking spray foam because it's the most airtight. If possible, I want to do floor, walls, and ceiling. If I do that, how do I run wires and plumbing later? Note: right now I don't even have a floor plan. Even if I did the ktichen and the bathroom will end up getting swapped just because Murphy has a sick sense of humor.

I was thinking of runnung some kind of conduit, maybe 1 - 1 1/2 inch with pop ups evey 5 feet or something. Not sure how easy fishing a snake thru there would be. I suppose I could run wires/pipes in cabinets and what not. I really don't want to leave a track like the rear heaters tho that would be best for expansion I suppose.

What's a good way to keep the wires and pipes hidden?

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Old 04-24-2017, 12:54 PM   #2
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You could run them between the frame rails.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:11 PM   #3
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Tuck your electrical against the chair rail, if you're keeping it low. Figure out your floor plan before you foam, though. After you've treated and painted the steel, mark it out with either chalk, tape, or dryboard markers. I'd also consider floor joists for the plywood subfloor, and then you can run your plumbing or electrical conduit along the joist.

I don't know if you have an access hatch to your fuel tank through the floor, but remember to make sure its accessible!. It'll save you a lot of grief later on if you have to access it.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:29 PM   #4
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Tuck your electrical against the chair rail, if you're keeping it low. Figure out your floor plan before you foam, though. After you've treated and painted the steel, mark it out with either chalk, tape, or dryboard markers. I'd also consider floor joists for the plywood subfloor, and then you can run your plumbing or electrical conduit along the joist.
I've seen quotes here as high as $2400 for a bus. If that holds true then, I'm going to have to save up some money anyway (roughly $1,000 a month). That'll give me time to get a floorplan layed out.

I don't like the chalk outline idea all that much. I'll go to Costco and/or the liquor store and load up on cardboard boxes. A 28" pathway in tape looks fine until you try to get 2 butts thru it at the same time. So, I'm going to build my bus with cardboard boxes first. I'll stand here and cook something, now you go to the bathroom.

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I don't know if you have an access hatch to your fuel tank through the floor, but remember to make sure its accessible!. It'll save you a lot of grief later on if you have to access it.
Two (sorta). I have a 13 1/2" square access for the fuel pump and I have the filler neck that comes in the interior of the bus for a short distance. Not sure how that was ever legal. I know it's diesel and not nearly as bad as gasoline but some hippy dippy lawyer mommie should have been all over that.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:08 PM   #5
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In lieu of pushing a fish tape through a conduit try tying a light string to a plastic bag and vacuuming it through. Kite string, mason line, even sewing thread can work. (I've vacuumed sewing thread with only a safety pin tied to it through about a 120 foot run of 3/4"!) Use the string to pull a real electrical pulling line in, and then pull the cable with that.

On the floor I'm planning to use foam board rather than spray foam. Not only is it cheaper, but IMHO on a floor it's particularly important that the surface be planar and smooth. It seems like a lot of work to shave sprayed foam to where it would be comparable to sheet foam. Sure sheets have joints, but I'm planning on a foam with adequate compressive strength so I won't be laying any 2x2's or whatever into the floor. That'll keep the joints to a minimum and those can be largely mitigated by using tongue and groove foam, taping, or multiple layers of thin foam with offset joints (or don't worry about them). As background to explain why the surface matters so much to me: I'm planning on a hydronic heated floor. I want to use sheet aluminum on top of the foam as a heat spreader and probably a floor finish on top of that. (Or maybe just leave the aluminum bare?) PEX tube would be clamped/bonded to the bottom of the sheet. I don't want any plywood in the assembly so I'm going for a clean flat face on top of the foam.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:27 PM   #6
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In lieu of pushing a fish tape through a conduit try tying a light string to a plastic bag and vacuuming it through. Kite string, mason line, even sewing thread can work. (I've vacuumed sewing thread with only a safety pin tied to it through about a 120 foot run of 3/4"!) Use the string to pull a real electrical pulling line in, and then pull the cable with that.
Never tried it but that must be a hell opf a vaccum cleaner at 120 feet!!

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On the floor I'm planning to use foam board rather than spray foam. Not only is it cheaper, but IMHO on a floor it's particularly important that the surface be planar and smooth. It seems like a lot of work to shave sprayed foam to where it would be comparable to sheet foam. Sure sheets have joints, but I'm planning on a foam with adequate compressive strength so I won't be laying any 2x2's or whatever into the floor. That'll keep the joints to a minimum and those can be largely mitigated by using tongue and groove foam, taping, or multiple layers of thin foam with offset joints (or don't worry about them). As background to explain why the surface matters so much to me: I'm planning on a hydronic heated floor. I want to use sheet aluminum on top of the foam as a heat spreader and probably a floor finish on top of that. (Or maybe just leave the aluminum bare?) PEX tube would be clamped/bonded to the bottom of the sheet. I don't want any plywood in the assembly so I'm going for a clean flat face on top of the foam.
Um, I have that in my kitcken and it doesn't care much about being flat. I used some self-leveling goop over top of the mats. It didn't turn out all that level and the tiles are broken from moving the fridge but the floor still works just fine.

I'm also thinking about putting this stuff in the bus as well. Not sure what the current draw is.

I'm also thinking of doing more tha 2". I'm thinking 3+". The bus is 74" ceiling and I'm 74". A roof raise is required. If I did the math right, replacing the windows and 3" of overlap top and buttom gives me an 18" raise using 48" sheet metal so I can afford an extra inch or three on the floor and ceiling. I might do the same on the sides. Everyone uses 2x2s. I'm thinking 2x4s sideways. Of course this all may change when I'm told it'll cost $7328 (random number) for that much foam. Hopefully it's nowhere near that.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:29 PM   #7
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Yarn goes through the conduit pretty well the first time.

I've never heard of anyone spray foaming a floor on the interior. There have been a number of cases where people have foam sprayed from beneath the floor. That would be my number one choice because it doesn't steal any headroom.

At one time I had planned to tack weld pieces of sheep wire to the metal subfloor from underneath to give the spray foam more surface to cling to. It's still a possibility. I had cold feet all winter. I'm guessing there is less work involved in spraying foam from under the bus than there would be involved in removing the entire interior flooring to insulate.

I'm sure I'd find rust on my steel subfloor if I removed the plywood, but that's because of the way these things are treated, being frequently washed out by hose for 20 years. No, I'm not going back to the foundational spray foam guy for a subfloor insulation job. He wasn't very careful about spraying IMO. I'll spray it myself so I don't have anyone to complain about but myself this time.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:56 PM   #8
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Yarn goes through the conduit pretty well the first time.

I've never heard of anyone spray foaming a floor on the interior. There have been a number of cases where people have foam sprayed from beneath the floor. That would be my number one choice because it doesn't steal any headroom.
Thought I saw one just this afternoon when I did a search but I don't remember for sure much less the username.

Quote:
At one time I had planned to tack weld pieces of sheep wire to the metal subfloor from underneath to give the spray foam more surface to cling to. It's still a possibility. I had cold feet all winter. I'm guessing there is less work involved in spraying foam from under the bus than there would be involved in removing the entire interior flooring to insulate.
After being built, cabinets, etc. there's not much chance I'd bother. Now if the flooring sucked or had completely rotted out, fine.

Quote:
I'm sure I'd find rust on my steel subfloor if I removed the plywood, but that's because of the way these things are treated, being frequently washed out by hose for 20 years. No, I'm not going back to the foundational spray foam guy for a subfloor insulation job. He wasn't very careful about spraying IMO. I'll spray it myself so I don't have anyone to complain about but myself this time.
I've thought about doing the same with just the bed liner stuff but there are brake lines, fuel lines, nut & bolts to various crap... No way I want to cover that in 3" of foam. You think spraying the interior walls was a pain... just imagine what those boneheads could do to the underside of your bus. Better hope diesel dissolves it and the eninge doesn't care.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:54 PM   #9
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Yeah, I don't trust the foam guy I used to do a decent job under the floor. At least I wouldn't have to trim the foam under the bus, but that's one area the tougher foam would shine.

Previously someone was talking about spray foaming the underside of the floor and then spraying bedliner onto the foam to keep it dry and safe. It would certainly be sad to have to cut the foam out to be able to fix things under the bus. At the same time the foam would protect anything down there.

It looks like a lot of work to spray underneath the floor. My alternate, lazy, plan would be to install a floating floor inside, loosing about 1 1/4" of headroom.

Plans keep changing. I also didn't have a real floorplan in my bus. I let things fall where they may basically. There is a pattern developing.
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:01 PM   #10
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check out my build pics, I used soup bowls and irrigation pipe for the vehicle lights. for the other wires I ran them in the space between the ceiling and the foam board I put over the ribs. keep your wet areas back to back
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:02 PM   #11
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Seems some of us don't even bother with floorplans. I have a rough one in my head, sorta.
Then some folks have a floorplan and 3d model built before they own a bus.
Different strokes, I reckon.

Dave's bus is awesome! Sounds solid when you walk on those floors, man!
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:08 PM   #12
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Speaking of solid, does anyone use stabilizer jacks? I don't, but I feel like I'm on a boat sometimes. Gotta have sea legs for that rocking feeling.
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:44 PM   #13
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Two (sorta). I have a 13 1/2" square access for the fuel pump and I have the filler neck that comes in the interior of the bus for a short distance. Not sure how that was ever legal. I know it's diesel and not nearly as bad as gasoline but some hippy dippy lawyer mommie should have been all over that.
My bus also has that penetration for the filler as well. And, like I said, make sure you design in access for your fuel pump. Guy I know used to be a heavy mechanic, working on buses. He has horror stories of that access in conversions being blocked off and the shop having to tear apart the interior
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:54 PM   #14
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Speaking of solid, does anyone use stabilizer jacks? I don't, but I feel like I'm on a boat sometimes. Gotta have sea legs for that rocking feeling.
No stabilizers here man, best thing to do is just get a hammock and let the gentle motion of the wind powered rocking-bus lull you to sleep...

My floorplan was all in my head too. Interestingly enough I've only had to modify the couch area slightly from the first design, just lucky that way I guess...
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:38 PM   #15
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Here is how we did our sub floor. It took several times but the thing is wicked solid now.
Subfloor | Sasquatters

Here is about the spray foam we used. We used two different types and our friends used a third. Tiger Foam was by far the best. Lowe's Froth Pak came in second.
Spray Foam Insulation | Sasquatters

Good thinking about building it all in cardboard first. That was our initial plan but since we are using counter depth appliances we just built the rest out of tape to those depths. Saved time on obtaining, cutting, and then recycling all of that cardboard.

Good luck dude!
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:40 PM   #16
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I don't see a lot of choices in the floorplan. Each of us has a bowling alley of varying lengths that can only be set up in certain ways to work effectively. i.e. your passenger area is generally always behind the driver area.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:42 PM   #17
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I don't see a lot of choices in the floorplan. Each of us has a bowling alley of varying lengths that can only be set up in certain ways to work effectively. i.e. your passenger area is generally always behind the driver area.


True. But you have the option of a vertical or horizontal bedroom. With that option you then can make a master suite or have your bathroom area separate.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:01 PM   #18
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That was my original idea. A nice small sink, shower and toilet combo. Then I became aware that Oregon insurers will not ever insure a self built motorhome. That's when this bus became a van, which can not be a motorhome. So, no mounted tanks or permanent plumbing, no permanent propane tanks, etc. etc. It is a van after all.
My plans are to make modular components that will serve as furniture and cabinetry that can be removed when necessary, because this is a van. And in this state you're not allowed to live in any vehicle for over 180 consecutive days. Loosely enforced if someone complains.
This is my mobile fishing cabin anyway. I'll fit it out nicer as time goes by but I still have to conform.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:27 PM   #19
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Yep if the government can not make money of you they will create rules so that you cannot evade their tax scheme.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:50 PM   #20
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Yes, and there are so many people with buses and tiny homes that the government is starting to notice. Going off grid means you're not a good sheep.
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