Water weight

[gs1949]

I hadn't checked it out closely until yesterday, but my BlueBird has a very heavy looking contraption around the tank too. And the tank sure looks huge. I was told it was 60 gallons, but it looks bigger. I guess I should measure it and do some arithmetic so I can know for sure.

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by gs1949

I hadn't checked it out closely until yesterday, but my BlueBird has a very heavy looking contraption around the tank too. And the tank sure looks huge. I was told it was 60 gallons, but it looks bigger. I guess I should measure it and do some arithmetic so I can know for sure.

231 cubic inches to the gallon Take a look at the tank also. It is a welded steel , I am guessing here, 10 gauge steel tank. As some one who has lifted that tank down and put it back up it is an easy 200 lbs. Plus the cradle style mount it sits in plus the weight of 60 gallons of diesel plus the weight of (my guesstimate) 400 lb. cage that is a massive amount of weight on one side of the bus. Then , add in the weight of the wheelchair lift at the very rear corner. It would seem that weight and balance in schoolbuses, as per factory design, is not as big an issue as some might interpret it to be. The caveat is that a well balanced vehicle will always be more predictable and handle better especially in a traction challenged enviornment. As always Jim, IMHO.

[gs1949]

Yeah, I guess lifts must be heavy, but I don't know much about them because I don't have one to contend with. I was looking specifically for a bus with no computer and no lift. Those were my only 2 shopping points at first. I wasn't thinking specifically of rear engine bluebird, but as soon as I saw that 35 footer with no lift and a 5.9 Cummins 12 v, I knew that was the one.

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by gs1949

Yeah, I guess lifts must be heavy, but I don't know much about them because I don't have one to contend with. I was looking specifically for a bus with no computer and no lift. Those were my only 2 shopping points at first. I wasn't thinking specifically of rear engine bluebird, but as soon as I saw that 35 footer with no lift and a 5.9 Cummins 12 v, I knew that was the one.

That wheelchair lift is another easy 400 to 500 lbs. We unbolted mine and pushed it out the door on to a queen size matress. Incredibally, it hit flat stood up and squished that mattress to about an inch thick. When GVW is 28 K, (my 28 foot shorty) 1800lbs on one side is no big deal. My interpretation on the way it was originally designed.

[gs1949]

Well, kids move around in the bus, end up more on one side, etc. At least they did when I rode a schoolbus between 1956 and 1966, when I got a driver's license and a motorcycle.

Kids haven't changed that much besides the way they dress. So buses are still designed to cope with changing loads.

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by gs1949

Well, kids move around in the bus, end up more on one side, etc. At least they did when I rode a schoolbus between 1956 and 1966, when I got a driver's license and a motorcycle.

Kids haven't changed that much besides the way they dress. So buses are still designed to cope with changing loads.

Please do not take this cavlier attitude in any light aircraft you might find yourself flying in

[gs1949]

I haven't ridden in a light aircraft in over 40 years. But as I remember it there isn't much room to move around, especially in Bell 47s like the one in the credit sequence for the TV show Mash, which were the light aircraft I rode in the most when I worked for the forest service.

[banman]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Gasoline doesn't burn, the vapors do.

More precisely: The correct ratio of volatilized fuel and oxygen will burn...

This is why it's safe to have an in-tank electric fuel pump motor cooled by the gasoline it sits in -- there is not enough air (oxygen) in the tank to support combustion, all the free space above the liquid fuel level is filled with gasoline vapor.

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

The difference in gasoline versus diesel engines illustrates the difference in the two fuels. Gasoline vapors are highly flammable but its very stable in liquid form. Gasoline engines work by aerosolizing gasoline into vapor and then igniting it with the spark plug. Diesel fuel on the other hand combusts at high temperatures and therefore the diesel engine works with very high compression to create heat.

In an accident spill situation, gasoline can vaporize at ambient outdoor temperatures and then if those vapors encounter an open flame or heat source (which may be what's creating the heat to vaporize the fuel into vapor) you get a fireball. Diesel fuel on the other hand isn't going to spontaneously ignite without high pressure which isn't going to exist outside of the engine chamber.

On a typical summer day in the 80°'s to 90°'s the temperature of the pavement you're driving on is easily 140°F -- more than hot enough to volatilize diesel.
All the memes about frying an egg on your car fender or the sidewalk? Frying diesel is less tasty...
Complacency leads to tragedy -- safety sermon over -- hope I'm still welcome here!

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by gs1949

I haven't ridden in a light aircraft in over 40 years. But as I remember it there isn't much room to move around, especially in Bell 47s like the one in the credit sequence for the TV show Mash, which were the light aircraft I rode in the most when I worked for the forest service.

Ha I can date myself too. The Bell 47 was the very first aircraft I worked on after graduation from aircraft electrician school and then aircraft instrument repair school. I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield in Georgia in1971, which after WW2, my Dad ferried aircraft into. You do not see them to much anymore, at my field it is all Robinson R22 or R44 these days.

[gs1949]

I don't recognize quite a few of the helicopters I see lately. They even sound different. I haven't seen or heard a piston job for years now. All turbines. Never noticed anything like these Robinsons, but then the military around here is, as far as I know, pretty much just the Coast Guard. Haven't seen or heard a Bell 47 in decades.

[banman]

Originally Posted by gs1949

I don't recognize quite a few of the helicopters I see lately. They even sound different. I haven't seen or heard a piston job for years now. All turbines. Never noticed anything like these Robinsons, but then the military around here is, as far as I know, pretty much just the Coast Guard. Haven't seen or heard a Bell 47 in decades.

Originally Posted by Rivetboy

Ha I can date myself too. The Bell 47 was the very first aircraft I worked on after graduation from aircraft electrician school and then aircraft instrument repair school. I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield in Georgia in1971, which after WW2, my Dad ferried aircraft into. You do not see them to much anymore, at my field it is all Robinson R22 or R44 these days.

Wow! Been a while since anybodies made me feel "young(er)".

I was an army crew-chief on OH-6's and UH-1's. Turbine engines are the only type of helo's I've flown and wrenched on! And them two have been out of the army inventory for decades now!

[Rivetboy]

OH-6 Cayuse is a fast little bad aff helo for sure. An egg with a b r

[gs1949]

I like older aircraft. When I worked for the forest service was early to late 70s. So I not only got a chance to spend a lot of time in Bell 47s, they were still using Sikorski's. For fixed wing there were DC-3s, DHC Otters and Beavers, not the turdos, the originals. They were using A-26s for water bombers. I never got a chance to ride in an A-26. My first year of full time there was an incident where an A-26 pilot got into deep stuff, because he gave in and gave the woman who ran the hotel where he was staying a ride, in spite of the restricted certificate of airworthiness.

Not surprisingly, she sat on the mic, on the repeater frequency, and everybody in the whole Yukon who was on that channel, including me, heard it, and the MoT monitored that frequency too. That's what got him in stuff.

She said:"Oh, this his fun." He said, "Fun? You haven't seen anything yet," as he started a 450+ mph power dive towards a hillside, just as though he was starting a drop. He took it just like a real run. She squealed and pissed her pants; everybody heard that too. It was very funny. I don't know what happened to the pilot, but he was back the next year because hewas very, very good at what he did.

I also got chances to ride in newer machines, including an Allouette Gazelle, and for fixed wing a Porter Platypus on floats. New machines were faster and quieter, but they just got you there. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Diesel has a much higher flash point than gasoline (126 °F vs. −45 °F) but your point is valid. If the temperature gets over 126 °F (very possible), diesel vapors can be ignited by an ignition source.

I think Wikipedia sums it up better


"The flash point is a descriptive characteristic that is used to distinguish between flammable fuels, such as petrol (gasoline in the US), and combustible fuels, such as diesel. It is also used to characterize the fire hazards of fuels. Fuels which have a flash point less than 37.8 °C (100.0 °F) are called flammable, whereas fuels having a flash point above that temperature are called combustible."

[Joe45]

I got under the bus and did some measuring. I think there's enough space for some serious water storage between the axles, with the space behind the rear axle left for storage compartments.


The height is variable, as I'm really measuring to where the body panel ends.



Between frame and battery tray, under driver:
12”W x 18”T x 50”L

Between rear wheel and battery box:
60”L x 20”W x 12”T
OR
54”L x 26”W x 12”T

Under Driver:
18”W x 42” L

Between Frame/Center over drive shaft:
24”W x 48”L

Rear of Tires Center/Frame:
28”W x 24”L
28”W x 54”L

Rear of Rear Tires/Sides:
28”W x 84”L x 12”H