Window skinning options?

[DaddyMac]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

Single pane glass has a higher R-Value.

??

This might help ...http://www.glacierbay.com/Heatprop.asp

Note glass has a .20 value compared to FRP has a 2.08 R value.

• MATERIAL CONDUCTIVITY ("k") INSULATIVE ("R")
  Copper 2712.00 .00037
  Aluminum (6061) 1160.00 .00086
  Aluminum (5052) 960.00 .00104
  Lead 245.00 .004
  Stainless Steel (316) 113.00 .00885
  Glass 5.00 .20
  Polyester FRP (hand laid) .48 2.08
  Polyethylene Foam .43 2.33
  Wood (dry) .33 3.03
  Polyester FRP (pultruded) .31 3.26
  Glass Wool .29 3.45
  Polystyrene (expanded) .28 3.57
  Cork Board 27 3.70
  Polystyrene (extruded) .21 4.80
  PVC (Klegecell) .21 4.80
  Polyurethane Foam .17 5.88
  Air .16 6.25
  BARRIER 20 (new) .037 27.02
  BARRIER 20 (20 years) .05 20.00
  AURA Panels .013 75.00
  Total Vacuum .004 250.00

Lorna: We spent Xmas in Las Cruces NM, love that area. Now in Florida. NM was great - wish we could have stayed.

[bus-bro]

The problem with UV stabilized FRP, such as Filon, is getting it. Where?
I bought a 20 foot roll of the stuff from RV Surplus. It ain't cheap, and truck shipping ain't cheap, but I got enough to do alot of bus projects. Built about 7 window blanks, bonded the FRP to plywood with epoxy (which ain't cheap either).
I'll put the blanks in when the weather warms, caulked with 3m marine caulk (which also ain't cheap).

Now broke, but someday plan to take pictures and post 'em.

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

... I’m just suggesting you use the correct materials applications – I don't suggest you use interior house materials for exterior truck applications.

This statement here will give us the giggles for days! Okay every one who put wood stoves in their buses... please remove them and put a wood stove that has been made for a mobile application in it's place.

I have tried to buy "specialty" stuff before (other applications) and discovered that it is priced out of our budget because we won't be using it by the tractor trailer load or if I can get it shipped in, then the shipping doubles the already high price.

Besides, one of my favourite pasttimes is making an item do something that it was not originally designed to do. The look on the "sales associates" at Lowes and Home Depot is priceless. When we lived in Seneca, SC, the folks at the local Lowes finally learned to leave us alone... unless they were new. I think the older workers would sic the newbies on us just to see their reaction.

[DaddyMac]

I wouldn’t confuse innovative and forward thinking energy alternatives to window skinning techniques. It would be absurd to suggest you can’t adapt or modify one use for another – in many mobile applications. I don’t think my comments or effort provoked the same response as you would suggest.

Skoolies are creative DIY engineers who regularly use resourceful and ingenious substitutes for affordable applications in innovative ways. I doubt anyone here is thinking of skinning all their bus windows with wood stoves. I believe the thread topic was window skinning and my own suggestions were directed to that effort.

I wouldn’t be so sure outsiders searching these threads (practiced professionals or knowledgeable amateurs alike) would share or appreciate your giggles as much as you do yourself. I’m fairly confident there are plenty of giggles to go around with comments like “Single pane glass has a higher R-Value” in comparison to FRP.

If you are that presumptuous, I’m pretty sure Lowes won’t be the only colleague or consultant learning to leave you alone. I don’t think the intention of Skoolies is to prohibit an open discussion on innovative techniques - or for that fact - detract knowledgeable fans who wish to contribute and offer intelligent discussion to the community at large.

Lorna: I’ve read your own posts (as well as others) with enthusiasm and appreciation as I sought out helpful information and solutions to my own design. For that I am very grateful to you and the community. I carefully selected my introduction upon a forum area of my expertise, experience and education. I’m not some uninformed troll or know it all who disrespects others competence.

I specialize in advanced technology oriented, forward thinking, constructing industry techniques in the repair, strengthening, and upgrading of industrial and commercial facilities through the application of state-of-the-art construction materials and techniques. I’m a licensed contractor with an advanced degree in these techniques.

I hope my post is not deleted and remain a registered user in what I believe is a valuable and friendly community forum – regardless. Boorish attacks on ‘newbies’ will eventually lead knowledgeable fans to pass on contributing or refraining from joining all together.

[mightybus]

That was a very eloquent rebuttal.
I sure appreciate your knowledge.
What is your degree in?
What university?
Do you have any patentable ideas?
It's ok to be an applications man.
Most of the more modern construction is occurring at the Pacific rim and India.
Have you thought about growing your business in those areas?

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

This statement here will give us the giggles for days!

When I say "US" I meant my husband, my daughter and myself. I certainly did not mean any one on this board and I still stand behind my statement of FRP havs minimal R-Value. Sorry if I POed you off. I will keep my mouth shut.

[DaddyMac]

Originally Posted by mightybus

That was a very eloquent rebuttal.
I sure appreciate your knowledge.
What is your degree in?
What university?
Do you have any patentable ideas?
It's ok to be an applications man.
Most of the more modern construction is occurring at the Pacific rim and India.
Have you thought about growing your business in those areas?

My bachelor's degree is from Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania. My continuing education and graduate programs are all leading to master's degree in engineering. Believe it or not – as bad as I spell – I also have a Journalism/English degree with several years experience in broadcasting. I’m now a licensed contractor in the State of Florida. I'm a MSFH (My Safe Florida Home) certified contractor with certification in FLASH (Federal Alliance for Safe Homes) and FEMA Hurricane Preparedness Construction Techniques. Aside from my fulltime job as a contractor I hold down a part time job in engineering. No interest in patents at this time – but I do have a few to many ideas that keep me occupied. I really don’t wish to pursue work outside Florida at this time. I’m really just a guy looking to build a 'Skoolie' bus and learn what I can from those of you who offer.

[DaddyMac]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

The problem with UV stabilized FRP, such as Filon, is getting it. Where?
I bought a 20 foot roll of the stuff from RV Surplus. It ain't cheap, and truck shipping ain't cheap, but I got enough to do alot of bus projects. Built about 7 window blanks, bonded the FRP to plywood with epoxy (which ain't cheap either). I'll put the blanks in when the weather warms, caulked with 3m marine caulk (which also ain't cheap).
Now broke, but someday plan to take pictures and post 'em.

UV stabilized FRP, such as Filon, are a bit expensive. Maybe cost prohibitive purchase for many Skoolie conversion projects. You can check with RV surplus and any local manufacturers for material ‘drops’ – often pieces of cut out or trimmed excess they have left over from manufacture they can offer. I’ve often picked them up for free. You may not find them long enough for a complete 20 foot run, but you should have no problem finding them large enough to fill each window bay.

I’m designing a mixed application of FRP wall skin while building my own windows using polycarbonates and Lexan. With the Lexan application I can run the complete bus side with clean lines and minimum gaps (as in touching side by side). The look should achieve the desired effect as seen on new coaches with the complete side
‘glassed’ in dark tinted color.

Id love to see your pics when posted. My ideas attached.
I’m planning to skin the bus in FRPs, then add complete run of tempered or polycarbonate glass.

My ideal window design using Lexan window concept.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2853...06589167ATyGdJ

Before and after of window design – just add tint.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2752...06589167KRFEYC

Inspirational window design and concepts.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2385...06589167JQMmLA
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2718...89167zTGlGGurl

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

... The look should achieve the desired effect as seen on new coaches with the complete side
‘glassed’ in dark tinted color...

To each his own. That is not a look that everyone likes. The nice thing about a skoolie conversion (or any bus conversion) is that we can customize each to his/her own tastes.

Now THIS is the way to go!!!! At least in my opinion!

[DaddyMac]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

That is not a look that everyone likes.

Are you speaking for your family again ... or everyone else!

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

Are you speaking for your family again ... or everyone else!

Okay just an FYI... I AM SPEAKING FOR MY SELF AND?OR MY FAMILY.

I do not speak for the people on this or any other forum.

[DaddyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'll update as time goes by (as in 12-24 months) as to how my FRP panels hold-up. I did it as a quick-fix to cover some extremely fugly metal panels underneath. I'd given it some thought prior to using it, but with a couple heavy coats of hardened enamel, I didn't have much in the way of concerns regarding UV. Maybe I was right, maybe not....time will tell. If it lasts 5 years (but I'm betting longer), for $250 I'll just do it again.

Smitty

I appreciate the feedback. How did you fasten your FRPs.
I was thinking of interior connections backed with fiberglass layment to avoid telltale signs of fasteners on outside exterior.
With the exception of caulking exterior edges - I would think this would work. It seems to the be the normal application in the RV industry today
but they do use roof and wall connections like specialized molding. I may use some of these as well.

I'd appreciate any thoughts and comments from yourself and others who have tried the FRPs. I look forward to your updates.

[zim]

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

I'd appreciate any thoughts and comments from yourself and others who have tried the FRPs. I look forward to your updates.

On the current bus, I used 16ga stainless on the curb side and spent nearly $450... then when my budget and timeline changed, I had to look for something cheaper on the driver's side. I went with FRP from Lowes, bumpy side turned in and attached with self drilling, self tapping screws. It has two coats of rustoleum equipment paint sprayed on and it has survived 3 years so far with no cracking or nastiness... though it does have some mildew spots where the trees have dripped. It gets sun up until about 1PM, then is shaded for the remainder of the day. I had considered using it again on the new bus, but found a good price on aluminum trailer skin at a salvage place in St. Pete that was actually less expensive than the FRP. I wouldn't have a problem using the FRP again if needed, but I also liked the idea of lexan down the side with window gaskets for the 'transit' look. Anyway, the price on the aluminum sealed the deal.

[slager55]

Originally Posted by jkindt

I know some have used 20ga sheet metal to fill in the windows, but what about using FRP? I ran across a sample of different FRP panels and found a nice white smooth one that looks very much like the outer skin on modern RVs. I can get a full 4x8 sheet of this stuff cheaper than sheet metal. I was thinking I could cut it to fit the window opening, attach aluminum angle to the edges so I can screw it or rivit it into place and use some urethane sealant to seal them in when I install them. Basically it would be a 'window replacement' that is flat, smooth, and very dent and warp resistant.

Please share where you can get the FRP I am very interested. Thank you

[LP4171]

For anyone who has kept their windows, any luck getting screens on outside to keep the bugs out? I have an idea of removing some of the windows and doubling them up where I want them and adding a screen on outside. I have not been able to locate RV windows to fit my budget and size of window opening.
Thanks in advance.

[8window]

I made screens with screen frame, corners, spline and screening. I also used the screen clips to hold the screen frame flush with the window frame. You really only have to screen in the top half of the window.
I put the screens on the inside, so they wouldn't fly off when driving. So yes, I have to loosen the screws that hold in the clips to take the screen out, to open or close the window, but works great for me.

Here is the link to the screen clips:

Prime-Line Flush Window Screen Clips (8-Pack)-L 5761 - The Home Depot

[nat_ster]

FRP will not stand up to the outside environment. You need to use metal.

More that one person has made that mistake on this site, myself included.

FRP can be had at most Home depot / Rona / Lows.

Nat

[juliol]

Do you have any pics? this sounds like a great Idea.

J

[nat_ster]

FRP gets real saggy and wrinkled when the temperature changes. It expand and contracts at a different rate than the steel.

It was also never made to hang free without a backing behind it.

I installed it in a guys race trailer. He hated it so much we had to pull it all out and start over with diamond tread aluminum.

No pics. I was having a really bad day. I lost money on that job.

Besides, FRP is almost the same cost as 14 gauge metal. Why would you even bother? It cost the same as 18 gauge sheet steel.

Nat

[Tango]

FRP is fine for lining showers...but not much else.