98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion: 2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideouts

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by dgorila1

Vlad,
I started re-reading your build again before my boss walked in (oops, better get to work) and had a question: Considering the extensive about of fabrication you did adding underbody storage, the roof raise, body bracing, etc would you consider buying a coach bus and using that as your platform if you did it again? Just curious since the coaches are unibody construction with the full underbody compartments, already have good headroom, etc. Would starting with a coach have saved you any time, money or hassle? Either way I love your build, very inspirational!

I think coach is even better starting point. Schoolbuses are built on budget. If you can find coach with good headroom, storage under the floor and low mileage you can use it as a great conversion project.

The biggest challenge in my conversion are slideouts for sure. Without slideouts the whole conversion is really not a big deal.

The other problem for me is a work place, which I don't have right now.

[thjakits]

Originally Posted by Vlad

The engine is fully mechanical, no electronics. The only electronic thing I can see is throttle position sensor which is used by transmission.

...then it should be fairly easy to find a few more HP on this one, though certainly will need a GOOD EGT-sensor and if you can get the intercooler to work better - .....probably good enough!!

Working the intercooler will help a lot - better inflow and outflow for cooling air...

thjakits

[Elliot Naess]

Originally Posted by Vlad

... ...

The problem with egt is the distance of 40 feet.....

If I understand you right, you have pointed out something interesting.
Millicent's pyrometer (EGT gauge) came with wiring that is specific for the gauge and sender and cannot be modified or replaced with regular wire. I have no idea how it works. But the length of that special wire might be a problem. I seem to remember there were several lengths available, but who knows if there is one that would reach the length of a 40 foot pusher. You would want to talk to a commercial speedometer shop before making extensive plans. Or perhaps you can look it up online.

[thjakits]

Today it should be possible to get the reading "back there" and then send it digitally to the front - or even by bluetooth.
If there is nothing on the (after)market - I am sure one could rig something with Rasperry or Arduino, to get the proper signal and then send it wherever you want (even home if you desire!! )

But you are right - probably not going to find a pyro with a 45 ft lead!!

Cheers,

thjakits

[Elliot Naess]

Well, now I'm beginning to think of this as a challenge. So I googled it.
Took me about three seconds to type "Isspro pyrometer lead", and bang:
Isspro EV2 Gauges Pyrometer Lead Wire
They make it up to 60 feet long! End of problem.

[Elliot Naess]

I said I don't know how these pyrometers work. What always puzzled me is that they use no electric connection to power it. Well, here is the answer:

"If something's too hot to handle, it's no good trying to measure its temperature with an ordinary thermometer. You could try a thermocouple instead—a kind of thermometer that works by generating electricity according to how hot it gets."

It makes its own electricity.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/how-pyrometers-work.html

So... our kind of pyrometer is not actually a "real" pyrometer, scientifically speaking. Doesn't matter, of course. I'm very glad I installed mine.

[thjakits]

WOW!! 65 feet is loooong run!

I think I'd still rather get a short as possible run and transmit the values by othe means....
I think these wires cannot be repaired and are rather stiff - once broken - get a new meter.....

IF there is no other way to get the numbers put a small camera in front of the gauge in the engine room and send the video up front!!

thjakits

[Elliot Naess]

The lead is not terribly stiff. I remember no difficulty routing it.
I expect it cannot be repaired (without risk of messing up the calibration).
But you wouldn't need to buy a new gauge, nor sender. The lead is a separate part.

[Vlad]

When it comes to pyrometer in our application we have 2 options. First get egt sensor, special extension wire and gages. Second get egt sensor read it right there by engine transmit digital or analog signal the front via regular wire. Use digital or analog signal to display value.

In both cases thermocouple egt sensor is used. In first case thermocouple wire is used for extension. In second case regular cat cable can be used, but some sort of extra devices must be used. I am thinking about using arduino to use it for this task.

[thjakits]

Vlad,

I believe there is NO extension for pyrometers (unless you have the proper gear to re-calibrate). You buy them with the needed length of wire and that's how they are calibrated at the factory - if you use a given set, you HAVE to replace a broken wire with the same type and LENGTH or your readings become meaningless....

I agree on the Arduino (or Rasperry) approach, especially as you could use the same gadget for other uses! You can send LOADS of data and even control a few items back there if you want too!!

thjakits

[Vlad]

[QUOTE=thjakits;152662]Vlad,

I believe there is NO extension for pyrometers (unless you have the proper gear to re-calibrate). You buy them with the needed length of wire and that's how they are calibrated at the factory - if you use a given set, you HAVE to replace a broken wire with the same type and LENGTH or your readings become meaningless....

I agree on the Arduino (or Rasperry) approach, especially as you could use the same gadget for other uses! You can send LOADS of data and even control a few items back there
Thermocouples are simple but complicated.... i found a loads of information when I wanted to install pyrometer. There are 2 types of thermocouple wire one is thermocouple wire itself and second is thermocouple extention wire. I don't remember exactly how it all arranges but it is doable. I would rather use arduino and will probably go this way. Arduino is cheap, reliable, surer flexible, can be used as alarm.... it actually everything you want....

[aaronsb]

Yep, thermocouples are calibrated with their lead resistance included as part of the sensor.

Something rather simple would be to use a linear analog converter, and a gauge with a selecting input that takes 5 volts. (the gauge linked below allows J & T thermocouple, RTD, Voltage, and mA)

Linearizing your thermocouple sensor makes a great fit with arduino style computers, since most of the DACs on those microcontrollers take a 3.3 or 5v analog signal converted to 10 bit digital.

Single Channel EGT Probe Amplifier Conditioner 0 to 5 VDC Analog Out

Mini Digital Pyrometer Gauge "SuperLite" with Peak Hold

You should also check out auber instruments, they have a lot of different components.


[QUOTE=Vlad;152668]

Originally Posted by thjakits

Vlad,

I believe there is NO extension for pyrometers (unless you have the proper gear to re-calibrate). You buy them with the needed length of wire and that's how they are calibrated at the factory - if you use a given set, you HAVE to replace a broken wire with the same type and LENGTH or your readings become meaningless....

I agree on the Arduino (or Rasperry) approach, especially as you could use the same gadget for other uses! You can send LOADS of data and even control a few items back there
Thermocouples are simple but complicated.... i found a loads of information when I wanted to install pyrometer. There are 2 types of thermocouple wire one is thermocouple wire itself and second is thermocouple extention wire. I don't remember exactly how it all arranges but it is doable. I would rather use arduino and will probably go this way. Arduino is cheap, reliable, surer flexible, can be used as alarm.... it actually everything you want....

[Vlad]

[QUOTE=aaronsb;152673]Yep, thermocouples are calibrated with their lead resistance included as part of the sensor.

Something rather simple would be to use a linear analog converter, and a gauge with a selecting input that takes 5 volts. (the gauge linked below allows J & T thermocouple, RTD, Voltage, and mA)

Linearizing your thermocouple sensor makes a great fit with arduino style computers, since most of the DACs on those microcontrollers take a 3.3 or 5v analog signal converted to 10 bit digital.

Single Channel EGT Probe Amplifier Conditioner 0 to 5 VDC Analog Out

Mini Digital Pyrometer Gauge "SuperLite" with Peak Hold

You should also check out auber instruments, they have a lot of different components.



I think I will try to go arduino way. Arduino has lots of cheap and great sensors and other things like this MAX6675 Type K Thermocouple Temperature Sensor Module Interface:
MAX6675 Type K Thermocouple Temperature Sensor Module SPI Interface for Arduino | eBay

Yes you can buy gauges, sensor extension... you can buy the whole RV but everything has it's price...

Once I used Arduino successfully to build automatic torque converter lock for my Dodge Ram. It was fun to build, fun to program and fun to use. It was under $10 all together and it was working the way I liked.

Also using Arduino I can build water/methanol injection controller for next to nothing. The same Arduino chip can be used to read pyrometer and if needed it can activate multistage water/methanol injection to get more power and cool EGTs

This is the video to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uARdp0OPSJU#t=12.037244

[aaronsb]

Arduino boards have really democratised the use of embedded controllers. For my project's "process brains" I have a mega board and some multi channel relay boards.

They drive all the lighting in the vehicle, and collect all the sensors (tank levels, battery status, faults, closure indicators)

I am able to multiplex a single wire capacitive switch to control all the lighting. Basically I can use a single wire for a switch, and a single wire for lighting power with chassisn earth, and cross connect any behavior I want.

Have you looked much into the CAN bus shields? I picked up a few and have successfully sent test messages between devices, the test was to illuminate a led attached to the other devices on the bus at different pwm frequencies.

With small footprint controllers the possibilities are endless. I picked a pwm test because of the many things you can drive that way. Each controller device uses a small piece of state machine code to stay lean. Its been a learning experience, coming from "average" computers where I don't have to worry about saving my clocks.

[QUOTE=Vlad;152687]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

Yep, thermocouples are calibrated with their lead resistance included as part of the sensor.

Something rather simple would be to use a linear analog converter, and a gauge with a selecting input that takes 5 volts. (the gauge linked below allows J & T thermocouple, RTD, Voltage, and mA)

Linearizing your thermocouple sensor makes a great fit with arduino style computers, since most of the DACs on those microcontrollers take a 3.3 or 5v analog signal converted to 10 bit digital.

Single Channel EGT Probe Amplifier Conditioner 0 to 5 VDC Analog Out

Mini Digital Pyrometer Gauge "SuperLite" with Peak Hold

You should also check out auber instruments, they have a lot of different components.





I think I will try to go arduino way. Arduino has lots of cheap and great sensors and other things like this MAX6675 Type K Thermocouple Temperature Sensor Module Interface:
MAX6675 Type K Thermocouple Temperature Sensor Module SPI Interface for Arduino | eBay

Yes you can buy gauges, sensor extension... you can buy the whole RV but everything has it's price...

Once I used Arduino successfully to build automatic torque converter lock for my Dodge Ram. It was fun to build, fun to program and fun to use. It was under $10 all together and it was working the way I liked.

Also using Arduino I can build water/methanol injection controller for next to nothing. The same Arduino chip can be used to read pyrometer and if needed it can activate multistage water/methanol injection to get more power and cool EGTs

This is the video to watch:

[IronPatriot]

Hello Vlad,

I am new to this forum and I am equally impressed and inspired by your modifications to your bird.

My bus has some serious modifications done to it as well, but nothing compared to yours!

Im looking forward to your continued posts.

[superduty_59]

Awesome conversion project! Can't wait for updates.

[Vlad]

We finally moved into our new house, which is of course not new but renovated by me....

As winter is coming I want to add extension to my garage and start working on the bus again... inside my own place. Last winter we rented a place for the bus and I could work a bit, but owners created too much hassle....

So just to remind I am not dead, bus is not dead, just too many things keep popping up and stealing all my "free" time....

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by Vlad

You are absolutely right. My GVWR is 16626 KG which is 36200 LB. The rest is the same. BTW how long is your bus from rear bumper to front. Just measured my it is 40' + - 1".

Do you know your original weight (front and rear) before the mods and where you are now after roof lift and insulation?

My bus (see profile) measures 39'4" glass to glass interior. I started at 22,420 lbs with me and the gf aboard. After removing the seats, rubber matting and plywood, it is down to 20,150. Haven't weighed front vs. rear or corner weighed it.

[Vlad]

Finally I almost finished my garage, so time to start working on bus again.

I levelled it side to side and back to front. My floor is not ideal, so I used roof, to be more accurate roof trusses, as level reference. Now I can use self levelling laser level instead of measuring everything and squaring everything.

Our family received one more member and this will affect floor plan.

We really want to run south this winter for at least couple of month. I hope I will make it work.

First I need to start working on our kitchen. My goal is to build cabinets right inside kitchen slideout.

Big question what appliances should I pick? Recently I found microwave/grill/exhaust fan combo:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/KitchenAi...9ESS/205896511

Or

Whirlpool 1.9 cu. ft. Over the Range Convection Microwave in Stainless Steel with Sensor Cooking-WMH76719CS - The Home Depot

I really like an idea to combine 3 in 1 considering space limitations in motorhome.

I know for quality living kitchen must have as mach space as possible for cabinets to store things, but appliances like dishwasher and stove and fridge will steal this space and there is nothing to do...

Any ideas?

[family wagon]

That Whirlpool unit looks very similar to the one I bought on "clearance" at Lowe's in April for USD$400. Maybe it's the same model. Actually... we bought two of them. The first I installed in the kitchen in the house; we liked it so well we bought another to put in the bus. That one is still on a shelf in the shop in its original packaging; it'll be a while before the bus interior is finished enough to actually install the thing. Here are my thoughts based on daily living with the unit in the house kitchen:

• it's a microwave. It microwaves like any other.
• a plastic container is included for steaming vegetables. We hadn't tried that in the microwave before, but it actually works really well. Maybe it cooks the carrots just a little longer than we'd prefer, but it sure is convenient.
• We love baking with the convection oven feature. It heats the kitchen so much less than the traditional 30" slide-in oven-range unit does! We've baked a wide variety of things in there: cookies, cakes, loaf breads, potatoes, muffins, pot pie, casseroles. I think we've used the "old" oven about 3 times since we bought this 5 months ago, whereas this has been used probably once or twice every week.
• The oven cavity is surprisingly big, but our family is big too, so we tend to use large cookware. The heater and fan are in the left wall of the cavity and the fan does a pretty good job of circulating air, but sometimes the cookware is just a little too big (and close to the heater). In that case we pull the dish out and turn it 180° part way through cooking so that the left edge of the food won't overcook.
• Occasionally we don't plan things very well and find that we've no way of microwaving something because the combo unit is already committed to baking something for the next 30-40 minutes. Fortunately this hasn't been terrible to work around, and we've gotten better at sequencing the food prep so that this conflict comes up rarely.
• One thing this doesn't do is toast or broil. If you want to toast bread, or maybe melt some cheese onto bread, or broil some salmon to finish it off after baking, you might be disappointed. It'll get warm but it won't brown.
• If you're like me, you may burn yourself a few times. It has taken some re-training for me to learn that it's not always safe to reach in and grab whatever's in there. I need to pause and consider whether I've been microwaving or baking. If the latter, everything is going to be 350° and I'd better go in with some kind of pot holder.

Overall I'm really happy with the microwave/convection oven combination. I had used a traditional gas RV oven only once or twice in the past but knew that was absolutely not going into my bus. For a long time I thought I'd have to find a small electric wall oven to complement a traditional microwave, but this is a really great space-saving alternative.