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10-07-2017, 01:19 PM
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#101
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Btimmer
We were on that walkway a week before it collapsed. It still gives me liver shivers thinking about it.
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I'm glad you weren't on them when they collapsed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
Oh, crap. We used to go down there for handmade knife shows waaay back when. Bo Randall was a inspiration to my pops.
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Sorry, not sure who Bo Randall is.... I didn't live in Texas, and I was still a kid when it happened - but old enough to remember the news reports about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
One of the first things we studied when in engineering school was that seemingly simple change in loading those suspended rods. Stuck with me, for sure.
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Obviously it stuck with me, too. Funny thing, when my professor put up slides of the original transfer boxes, then the modification, I gasped. I saw the problem immediately. I think only one or two others saw the issue before the professor showed actual pictures of the pulled-through boxes (then a wider shot of the devastation). His presentation struck all of us that day, hard. My professor drove home the point that engineering mistakes will kill....
I'm in software now, and I routinely see mistakes up and down the engineering process (really, lack of process). The excuse of "oh, its only software. We can fix it in the next release..." just makes my blood boil. We're going to see more and more data breaches, cars that accelerate out of control, etc., because software isn't treated as an engineering endeavor.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.... I'm done now....
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10-08-2017, 08:51 AM
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#102
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa
I agree with wunderhut, that's the reservoir for the power steering/cooling fan. Uses 10330 engine oil, there is a cartridge filter inside.
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I concur. Following the lines should confirm it.
My bus has a similar, though smaller, reservoir with a filter in it which feeds the power steering and hydraulic assisted braking. This summer I flushed the hydraulic system and changed the fluid from what appeared to be engine oil to a compatible ATF fluid. Now I can distinguish leaks in that system by colour.
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10-08-2017, 06:00 PM
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#103
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,497
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 24v
Rated Cap: 72 pax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderhut
Yep. It also probably says to use 10w30 which sounds strange for hydraulics, but that's what it uses. You can probably trace those lines on the bottom to a pump on the back of the air compressor and over to the fan.
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You are exactly right. Same on my rig. It takes close to 3 gallons of texxon or equivalent 10w30 oil.
I over filled mine... It goes from not reading at all to full in less than a quart!
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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10-08-2017, 06:03 PM
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#104
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,497
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 24v
Rated Cap: 72 pax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
I concur. Following the lines should confirm it.
My bus has a similar, though smaller, reservoir with a filter in it which feeds the power steering and hydraulic assisted braking. This summer I flushed the hydraulic system and changed the fluid from what appeared to be engine oil to a compatible ATF fluid. Now I can distinguish leaks in that system by colour.
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What trans oil is equivalent to 10w30 oil?
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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10-08-2017, 07:28 PM
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#105
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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I remember the the HYATT. I remember the exact spot in the road. My Dad was there and left 15 minutes before. A friend and his father made a delivery there earlier in the week and the commented as they walked under how they held up. Little old ladies turned into bloody waffles.
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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10-08-2017, 08:27 PM
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#106
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,708
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyDee
I'm glad you weren't on them when they collapsed...
Sorry, not sure who Bo Randall is.... I didn't live in Texas, and I was still a kid when it happened - but old enough to remember the news reports about it.
Obviously it stuck with me, too. Funny thing, when my professor put up slides of the original transfer boxes, then the modification, I gasped. I saw the problem immediately. I think only one or two others saw the issue before the professor showed actual pictures of the pulled-through boxes (then a wider shot of the devastation). His presentation struck all of us that day, hard. My professor drove home the point that engineering mistakes will kill....
I'm in software now, and I routinely see mistakes up and down the engineering process (really, lack of process). The excuse of "oh, its only software. We can fix it in the next release..." just makes my blood boil. We're going to see more and more data breaches, cars that accelerate out of control, etc., because software isn't treated as an engineering endeavor.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.... I'm done now....
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software is just as important as hardware.. just like engineers in structure and mechanics often put fail-safes for various less-than-ideal conditons to occur and not cause all out failure.. I do the same in my software..
ultimately if I took that bad (next release) attitude with my software.. ab ug could potentially mean a 911 phone call would fail, or be mis-directed.. thats as good as engineering which is shoddy.. the difference in software is that in many companies the designers also code it and create the test cases.. if the testers pencil-whip the test sheets in my organization they are Fired.. i make sure of it...
in mechanics of course the construction company can defy and not follow what the engineer designed and intended.. making it worse than software...
-Christopher
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10-08-2017, 08:48 PM
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#107
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
software is just as important as hardware.. just like engineers in structure and mechanics often put fail-safes for various less-than-ideal conditons to occur and not cause all out failure.. I do the same in my software..
ultimately if I took that bad (next release) attitude with my software.. ab ug could potentially mean a 911 phone call would fail, or be mis-directed.. thats as good as engineering which is shoddy.. the difference in software is that in many companies the designers also code it and create the test cases.. if the testers pencil-whip the test sheets in my organization they are Fired.. i make sure of it...
in mechanics of course the construction company can defy and not follow what the engineer designed and intended.. making it worse than software...
-Christopher
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I have a Professional Engineering license in software. Designers aren't supposed to be designing the tests. The tests are supposed to be designed from the requirements and design docs by the testing department.
However, my experience has been that "requirements, we don't need no stinkin' requirements..." is in full force no matter the company, so testing becomes an afterthought and shoddy. Those companies staff their software "engineering" departments with Computer Science grads. CS grads have been trained how to do research, not engineering.
Don't get me wrong, we need CS grads - just not doing engineering. "Oh, requirements and design takes too long. We're not working unless we're coding!" Then the customers "test our code for us!" It all makes me want to throw up....
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10-08-2017, 09:56 PM
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#108
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
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My 1999 and 2000 Blue Birds have what looks to be the same reservoir. I'm attaching photos of the one in the 2000 because the label with its manufacturer name with element and gasket part numbers might be of some use. The "TRACTOR FLUID" label looks like a P-touch add-on; the 1999 bus doesn't have this. I suppose it meant something in the maintenance shop where it was cared for previously. Maybe they just used the same hydraulic oil here as in tractors they also maintained..?
While we're on the subject of this thing: what's the procedure for changing the oil in this system? I didn't notice an obvious drain, but a hose or the sensor could be disconnected. There also must be quite a lot of oil in the 90 feet of hose from here to the pump on the engine up to the steering gear box and back again. Is it feasible to disconnect the return line at the reservoir and run the engine while refilling the reservoir so as to completely flush the system, or is that just going too far (and likely to make a lot of mess)?
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10-09-2017, 01:24 PM
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#109
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,497
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 24v
Rated Cap: 72 pax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon
My 1999 and 2000 Blue Birds have what looks to be the same reservoir. I'm attaching photos of the one in the 2000 because the label with its manufacturer name with element and gasket part numbers might be of some use. The "TRACTOR FLUID" label looks like a P-touch add-on; the 1999 bus doesn't have this. I suppose it meant something in the maintenance shop where it was cared for previously. Maybe they just used the same hydraulic oil here as in tractors they also maintained..?
While we're on the subject of this thing: what's the procedure for changing the oil in this system? I didn't notice an obvious drain, but a hose or the sensor could be disconnected. There also must be quite a lot of oil in the 90 feet of hose from here to the pump on the engine up to the steering gear box and back again. Is it feasible to disconnect the return line at the reservoir and run the engine while refilling the reservoir so as to completely flush the system, or is that just going too far (and likely to make a lot of mess)?
Attachment 16345Attachment 16346
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There is a drain plug on the bottom of mine... I used it to drain the overfilled amount. It was a big bolt... Can't remember the exact size, possibly 15/16 or 1" (maybe metric). I used a knuckle buster to loosen it.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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10-09-2017, 01:38 PM
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#110
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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BTW...there will be a big "Tiny Home" Jamboree in Arlington, Texas October 27 & 28 for any interested. I'm thinking about going up just to check out some of the tech & vendors.
http://www.tinyhousejamboree.com/venue-details/
And...from what I saw online, there will be several Skoolies present.
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10-09-2017, 02:43 PM
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#111
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,708
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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maybe thats when i should make my infamous Houston visit to meet fellow skoolies.. though ill stay in a Hotel
too bad M10 will probably be up the road by then.
-Christopher
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10-09-2017, 04:03 PM
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#112
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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The tiny home does sound interesting. I'm planning on making it.
And...Houston is just a hop & a skip while you are in the neighborhood. Bunch of folks here will be more than happy to spring for some tasty adult beverages and local fare.
BTW...The Arlington area is also home to some of the biggest auto swap meets in the country twice a year. One in Grand Prairie starting on the 19th.
I am have to make that as well.
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10-10-2017, 07:29 AM
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#113
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Bus skins are 18ga. 16 is noticeably thicker and heavier.
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Wonder if that varies by manufacturer. Someone (on here I think) said buses use unconventional sizes then said Blue Bird uses closer to 15 gauge. I need batteries for my micrometers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderhut
Yep. It also probably says to use 10w30 which sounds strange for hydraulics, but that's what it uses. You can probably trace those lines on the bottom to a pump on the back of the air compressor and over to the fan.
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Yes I think it does actually. Forgot to check it yesterday. One hose goes to a compressor on the engine. Haven't traced the other two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
My bus has the 16 ga skin- mentioned on spec sheet, also. It had zero body rust when I got it and thought it had to be aluminum 'cuz so thick. Got a magnet and nope, steel. I want to fire a 9mm at it to see if it penetrates, but don't want to do repair.
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.22 probably not tho a magnum might. 9mm better go thru. Why are you using such a whimpy round in the first place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyDee
This was one of the engineering disasters I had to study in college, along with Tacoma Narrows and a few others I don't remember now.
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I vaguely remember that. Probably not from the event tho I was certainly old enough. More likely from 10 Biggest Blunders or some such. Tacoma Narrows I think almost everyone knows.
[QUOTE=MarkyDee;227876]My professor drove home the point that engineering mistakes will kill....[/qupte] HAd a math teacher somewhere along the line that wouldn't give partial credit for wrong answers.
It's the right number just negative.
Congrats, you just launched the rocket into the ground.
Quote:
I'm in software now, and I routinely see mistakes up and down the engineering process (really, lack of process). The excuse of "oh, its only software. We can fix it in the next release..." just makes my blood boil. We're going to see more and more data breaches, cars that accelerate out of control, etc., because software isn't treated as an engineering endeavor.
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The Army is TERRIBLE with "software". Quotes because most of what's done here is closer to data entry than software. They still take too many shortcuts. Their excuse is no one shoots at helicopters with radar guided missiles. Then why the hell are you including them in your radar detecting releases? If Gen. Muchy Much was the one getting shot at, I bet they would change or find time to do it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon
I'm attaching photos of the one in the 2000 because the label with its manufacturer name with element and gasket part numbers might be of some use.
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Could be the same part numbers but my label is completely different. I'll have to remember to snap one.
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10-10-2017, 07:33 AM
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#114
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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15ga maybe for the ribs?
Skins made from 15 would be ridiculous.
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10-10-2017, 08:47 AM
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#115
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Njsurf73
What trans oil is equivalent to 10w30 oil?
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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The reservoir had a sticker that listed 3 acceptable fluids. I looked them all up and one was a GM code that was superseded by Dexron ATF fluid. Did some more research and plenty of people have used Dexron ATF as hydraulic fluid in their Internationals, so I gave it a go. No leaks and everything sounds and works fine so far.
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10-10-2017, 08:52 AM
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#116
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon
Is it feasible to disconnect the return line at the reservoir and run the engine while refilling the reservoir so as to completely flush the system, or is that just going too far (and likely to make a lot of mess)?
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That's what I did to flush mine.
I had a helper in the driver's seat. Put the return line in a bucket and got them to start the bus and turn it off when I gave them the signal. You don't want to run the hydraulic pump dry of course, but there will be a film coating the internals even while it's sputtering out those last squirts of fluid.
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10-10-2017, 09:01 AM
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#117
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
15ga maybe for the ribs?
Skins made from 15 would be ridiculous.
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Dunno. Whomever it was said 15 gauge skin and 14gauge ribs. Just repeating what I read. Don't know that I believe it either. Really gotta get batteries.
On a side note; the bus gained 784 lbs in new sheet metal and lost 580 lbs in scrap metal. I kept one solid sheet for a guy at work that might use it on a Caterham build and kept one sheet of perforated just "in case". I might should have kept a piece of the textured wall but didn't.
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10-10-2017, 09:04 AM
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#118
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Just add more when it starts to sputter. That way you've flushed it all thru.
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10-10-2017, 09:12 AM
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#119
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,708
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I knew a guy who would run his engineabout 5-10 seconds dry of oil to "pump out" the rest of his old oil during il changes. last I knew that 305 had 195,000 miles on it and wasnt dead..
I had an old chevy wit ha power steering leak that I didnt feel like fixing in the winter.. id run it whining until it got hard to turn then fill it up. and never did kill its power steering pump...
-Christopher
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10-10-2017, 09:13 AM
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#120
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
Someone check my math.
So, I'm told the rivet in a bus are 3/16" diameter which would match the picture below where diameter is supposed to be 3x the largest material thickness (3x was taken from aircraft AL rivets tho).
I'm guessing the original bus skin is 16 gauge which is 1/16" thick. Matches up so far. Grainer has 3/16 steel solid round headed rivets in 1/4" and 3/8" lengths. The part that doesn't match up is the prices I've been hearing. $12 for 200 rivets. Whoopie do. These are NOT stainless but they are getting painted any way so who cares?
What am I missing here?
https://www.grainger.com/category/so...yz7j3gZ1z0nmz5
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No replies on the rivet sizing?
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