A hippie with a not-so-minivan

[paxye]

OK, I am going to start my Conversion thread!!
We bought this bus last week and I had a pretty intense drive home with it...

Our plans are to live in it full time with our four kids once we sell the house (which will go up for sale near when the conversion is done)

Here is our bus:

92 Bluebird Coach, 6 cyl, 8.3 Cummins diesel automatic 298000 km. Air brakes. Single rear axel, tinted side windows, air conditioning, basement storages, #5 towing rig 7 and 4 hook-up wire, trailer brake leaver by steering , air seat suspension.




This here is a repeat from another post that I wrote but it would be best here I guess to start the conversion thread...

"I live in an extreme hot and cold climate so I really want to insulate as much as I can. Now, we are starting this build as two people who do not have much experience. I do learn quickly though.

So first... we have to stock AC units in the bus at the moment. 1 works, 1 doesn't but it might be just a fuse I was told... we don't know though.
Second, there are the stock heaters.

So what would you do? I am thinking though they take up space etc to keep the heaters. I am not sure about the AC units... Could they all be run off shore power instead of just the bus? if so how does that work? or not? I told you I was a beginner!! If not... are they more for only when driving? Are there any other reasons to keep them?

I have read many conversions here that just built on top of the floors and didn't rip anything out and then many more that of course ripped out the ceiling and the walls to redo insulation and ideally that is what we want to do but the rivets scare me... so many!! I guess my question here is about how you do it. I have seen drill the middle then use a dry chisel and hammer. What drill bit works best? What tools are needed? There also seems to be two types of rivets."




For the floors... do you start by un screwing the center isle? Are there any tricks? the floor looks really thick and I a bit miffed by what to do around the engine (we have a front engine inside)

Here is what we are starting with...








A few other Questions that were asked... I don't know if I have an inverter already. I know I have two very big battery banks and I can turn those off to keep power... There was a Webasto heater at one point but it was taken out before the previous owner got the bus.

I do have to say that though we have a 40ft bus, we also have a big family and we want to full-time so we need all of the space we can get to make our own strorage. The overhead bins are great but they take up SO much room and it just doesn't feel like it can fit into our plans. I guess I am looking at this in my driveway,still a bit on edge from my trip home, and I am wondering how we are going to do this!

[roach711]

MAN! What a nasty drive home!!! Looking on the bright side, you got the crash course on your bus's innards. I vividly remember driving my bus home - every nerve was on high alert.

If you're full-timing in one place (basically a house that happens to have an engine), all the engine mounted stuff is useless to you and you only care about the engine if you're moving to another semi-permanent location. If you're full-timing all over the place (basically an RV) good running gear is essential. Totally different approaches.

Since you'll likely be mostly parked, the engine-fed heaters won't be much use to you. The air conditioner in the picture looks like an engine driven unit also so that wouldn't be very useful either. Given what you want to do I think you'll ultimately strip the interior and start fresh.

For a bus that drives a little and parks a lot you'd want electric AC units (window units are cheap and work well) powered by shore power, and for heat, propane and/or electric units. Catalytic propane heaters work well. Just be aware that propane can and will kill you if you do something stupid.

I'm thinking the two AC units are actually one unit with two evaporator (cooling) coils and fans.

Those belly bins will be VERY useful!

My advice is to spend a lot of time reading the builds here, especially the full timers like Accordian and Lorna. There's a lot to learn and the more you know BEFORE you start the better.

[Diesel Dan]

Welcome! That looks like a great bus. If you get rid of the on-board AC, which runs off the bus engine, and install an RV style or household AC unit, you will have to run it off a generator while traveling. I understand those units take up space, but I think I'd leave them if it was my bus. Of course, I live in Texas.

[wmkbailey]

Just take it one step at a time and then you will be done, that easy.

I was lucky and my ceiling was all screws, about 800 of them. One screw at a time and I'm almost done, just a few stubborn ones I need to work on.
When I first decided to remove the inner sheet metal, I was planning for rivets. A lot of people cut them with an X with a grinder using a cutoff wheel. These are thin abrasive wheels good at cutting through metal. Then either using a hammer and chisel or an air chisel to knock them off.
Like Re: The Good Ship Anne Marie:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=392717&p=573800&hilit=air+chis el#p573800

Your AC is driven off a compressor in the engine. It will not run unless the engine is running. Lorna has an AC thread under Tutorials and How-to's\Keeping Your Bus Interior Cool

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=464309

There is a lot of great info on this site.

[roach711]

So, first things first.

Is your bus an RV which moves often or a house which stays put? The RV is more self contained and is more flexible. The house is cheaper since you don't spend much time on engines, brakes and transmissions, and simpler in that you may not need a DC electrical system at all.

Where will your water & electricity come from? (campground, a friend's house, solar)

How will you get rid of your black water (sewage) and grey water (shower and sink)? We've all found that plumbing is the most troublesome part of our design. Placement of holding tanks and drain pipes will effect your design from the beginning.

As you begin the demolition process think about where you want to go with this.

[bansil]

one thing you need to buy a cheap $20 4-1/2 grinder from northern tools or harbor freight the kind that has a 5/8-11 threaded stud

if you buy a combo pack that has all the wheels and such...please,please throw away the grinding wheels that came with the kit!!!
they are crap and can hurt you!!also don't buy grinding wheels at the "tool shows" from china they are crap period.

I wont argue with anyone on this...period

the cut off wheels you can get at Lowes /home depot will be fine go with a .045 reinforced wheel (always protect your eyes)

I prefer the dewalt cutoff wheels they are tuff

The over head bins....no easy way to do this

cut off the vertical support at roof; flush with where the rivets go into the ceiling this will let you get a drill into rivet's then

I also recommend buying cordless drill 18v or so (B&D have been good for me) as well as a 3/8 corded drill

if you can swing two cordless drills you will be a happy women when you can keep a Phillips #2 bit in one, and drill to pre-drill in the corded and in the other cordless a counter sink...speeds up the work from swapping bits


++++++++++++++++++++++++


when using cut off wheels and grinding wheels be aware of this!!!!!!!!!!!

the sparks coming off are hot, they can catch shiat on fire and worst is the "carbon" from the steel you cut will melt into safety glass and then rust as well as being rough, ugly and possibly cracking window....always have a "fire person" around when grinding

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

so enuf lecture now

[paxye]

We want to be on the road especially at first though we might settle down a bit after a few years. I do want it to be an RV though.

We want to be as self sufficient as possible and have Solar but be able to pull off of a campground/friends house or eventually a land of our own in the future if we need that. Our goal basically is to be able to travel for a bit and live for as long as we can on the road, boondock as much as we can and then for the bus to be our home while we settle down in a new area (most likely on the west coast).

Ideally, I want a compostable toilet. But we might need to have a back water tank to meet the standards of an RV in our province... I don't like the idea though. I need to talk to some local people around here that have done conversions so see how they met the conditions.

I "think" we would like to strip down and start fresh but I get the benefits of designing our space without the heaters and Air Conditioning which would only work when driving but I can see the benefits of having them also. Are there other options to use heat etc when driving?

If we do take things out, I remember seeing a video or thread about taking out the heaters etc.. but I can't seem to find it. (It explained the fluids in the tubes etc)

[paxye]

Bansil Thanks for the input!

The Angle Grinder I have is a Mastercraft bought at Canadian Tire... hopefully that will work?
I have an old and reliable heavy duty corded drill and and new cordless... Great idea of using different bits in each one!

I am in need of some gloves, safety goggles and a new fire extinguisher I believe!

[bansil]

it will be fine

I meant to say just buy the $20 ones they can and will be abused as much as a $80 one

I normally have 1 new one at all times so when the old one dies(every couple years)I get the new one and then buy another for reserve

for drilling keep the bit you want in the corded one and screw bit in cordless

for eye protection a full face shield with a hat or if hot at least a "bill" thingy over the top of the shield will keep chips from coming down, over your eye brows into your eyes

Keep a fan moving air behind you to keep cool and shield clear

gloves are hit and miss mechanics type if you can find some to fit are good, only issue is if they are synthetic sparks will melt them

so leather gloves for grinding and mechanics breathable type working works good.

if you work with a lot of wood it can dry your hands out as it "wicks" away the oils so leather gloves work good for my wife...I have leather hands

[roach711]

The coolant hoses going to your heaters will come off the engine at some point and go back in at another. The school buses I've seen have valves on the heater lines (near the engine) that you can close off before removing the heaters. I hear that propane furnaces will work while driving and the catalytic's definitely will.

The coolant is propylene glycol which is sweet and poisonous if drunk by kids or critters. You can recycle it or pour it on the ground; just make sure it doesn't puddle where it could be consumed.

If you have the space, save the equipment you remove. It often comes in real handy down the road.

Depending on how picky the local inspectors are, you might be able to borrow and temporarily install the "required" equipment then pull it out after you've been certified as an RV then put in what you really want. The composting toilet will simplify your plumbing enormously - no black tank and no plumbing to or from it. Down here in Sunny Michigan we just have to sign a paper that says we have the required stuff. I signed mine before I'd even begun demoing. I hear the Canadian inspectors are a bit more thorough.

[lornaschinske]

We kept our heaters. The front is still hooked up "normally". The rear heat exchanger/12vDC fans we pulled, drained, shortened & reconnected the hoses to each other to maintain flow. We acquired a small vintage 6 gallon LP RV water heater (dirt cheap), added a Camco "hot rod" to it and installed it. It will heat pet safe anti freeze (either with LP or with AC) that will flow thru the heat exchanger that is now mounted under the bus behind the rear axle with a air return hole cut into the floor. The heat will be ducted to the various "rooms" in the bus using PVC pipe. The ducts will also spill heated air into the insulated water bays to help keep the tanks from freezing. We have a small Dynaglo LP heater (one made to use inside) hanging on the wall in the bathroom area. We will add an LP heater in the fireplace mantle in the front salon as well.

Since we built-in a couple of the window unit air conditioners, we won't be building our experimental air chiller at this time (if ever).

I like redundancy in the heating systems. While we have never been without power more than 24 hours since we started fulltiming in 2006, I have lived in plenty of areas that routinely lost power for up to a week. A couple winters ago (while we were still in Socorro), Albuquerque lost power due to a huge storm that shut down a great deal of the northern part of the state (including I-25 in the central part of the state where we were at). The hardest hit was out of power for over two weeks and they apparently had no back ups to their heat systems.

Don't forget to insulate the floors. And keep in mind, you can park long term (monthly rates tend to be much lower than RV Park monthly rates) in mobile home parks if you have your own bathroom. Mobile home parks will not offer wifi/cable in their rental fee. Your electric may be metered OR you may have to get the service in your name. The mobile home/RV park we stayed at in TX offered metered electric at the same rate as the area parks but their rent was much cheaper. Once we added in our own cable/internet it all evened out to about the same. We will be getting DISH television and internet when we move back to TX (park wifi is iffy when you have fools steaming movies). We will get the "buy your own equipment" set up since that is what we had last time and we still have the equipment although I think the box is shot (lightening?). ?I dislike "leasing". We will be getting DISH because we will be buying a cheapish spot of land to park on. That will allow us to have a permanent TX address plus give us a place to work on our bus and convert one for our daughter. It will save us the monthly rental site fees too.

[lornaschinske]

You might want to read Best Bus for a conversion.

[LuckyChow]

My hat is off to you after reading the "drive home" blog. You experienced what all of us dread, and what many of us have nightmares about ----- breaking down on the initial drive home. I'm always on edge driving a bus that has been sitting for a while. Age takes its toll on rubber parts like fuel lines, hoses, and belts. For this reason, I never plan to drive a "new" bus after dark. I've had too many bad experiences doing this and everything just seems to be worse if you have trouble at night. You handled it like a pro though. Nothing worse than trouble on the first trip and thinking "what have I got myself into".

Take your time and think everything through. My personal preference is to take out all the seats and then go over everything on the bus mechanicals first before I start the conversion. This will give you time to think about how you want to go about the conversion, plus it will give you confidence in the vehicle knowing that everything has been inspected, repaired, and it's ready to be driven when the conversion allows. I believe there is no substitute for experience, so I'd look for a mechanic to do a mechanical inspection that has experience on these vehicles. One good resource is the local school bus garage. You may be able to go your local shop and ask if there are any mechanics that want a side job. Just tell them you bought a Blue Bird and need to have it inspected. That's a good start and shouldn't cost very much. They will be able to see what needs attention and give you an estimate for any repairs. You may not need very much. Plus, it will make you feel confident about the bus knowing there is unlikely to be any unknowns lurking under the hood. I'd also get it serviced since you don't know the last time that was done, or if it was done right. One thing at a time and then move on to the next project. In the end, it all adds up and you'll be in better control of process. You'll hit a bump or two probably, but it won't be over whelming. Welcome to the whacky (and fun ) world of busing!

[bansil]

Did you ever figure out the buzzing alarm?
After reading that you had air brakes it had me worried, that was the buzzng

[paxye]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

You might want to read Best Bus for a conversion.

Thanks! what a great post with great ideas!

Originally Posted by LuckyChow

Take your time and think everything through. My personal preference is to take out all the seats and then go over everything on the bus mechanicals first before I start the conversion. This will give you time to think about how you want to go about the conversion, plus it will give you confidence in the vehicle knowing that everything has been inspected, repaired, and it's ready to be driven when the conversion allows. I believe there is no substitute for experience, so I'd look for a mechanic to do a mechanical inspection that has experience on these vehicles. One good resource is the local school bus garage. You may be able to go your local shop and ask if there are any mechanics that want a side job. Just tell them you bought a Blue Bird and need to have it inspected. That's a good start and shouldn't cost very much. They will be able to see what needs attention and give you an estimate for any repairs. You may not need very much. Plus, it will make you feel confident about the bus knowing there is unlikely to be any unknowns lurking under the hood. I'd also get it serviced since you don't know the last time that was done, or if it was done right. One thing at a time and then move on to the next project. In the end, it all adds up and you'll be in better control of process. You'll hit a bump or two probably, but it won't be over whelming. Welcome to the whacky (and fun ) world of busing!

I had thought about that and I agree, I really want to make sure that everything is sound before. I can't move the bus from its spot at the moment because I can't get it registered as an RV until it is converted... BUT... I did a shout out on a local facebook group and found a mechanic mear me that has done his own conversions. I am waiting to hear from him but hopefully he may be able to help and could maybe give me some hands on insights and maybe I could have him do an inspection.

Originally Posted by bansil

Did you ever figure out the buzzing alarm?
After reading that you had air brakes it had me worried, that was the buzzng

I don't think it was. It went hand in hand with the Engine Warning light and after talking to Bluebird it was most likely a sensor since the other things it could be were ruled out. I have not had it checked out yet because I can't move the bus yet but I will do it as soon as I can. The air brakes were working perfectly well, PSI looked great etc. I am looking forward to getting a full inspection done though.

Originally Posted by roach711

Down here in Sunny Michigan we just have to sign a paper that says we have the required stuff. I signed mine before I'd even begun demoing. I hear the Canadian inspectors are a bit more thorough.

In other provinces all you have to do is have the seats out or have a wall? but I live in the province of EVERYTHING must be done... Look at this: http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/road_safe ... /index.php

[bansil]

You have to have a propane system? that's insane

the offer of TN is still open

[paxye]

Originally Posted by bansil

You have to have a propane system? that's insane

the offer of TN is still open

lol... I know! the thing is it is ALREADY titled as an RV!!!! The title has been transfered to me but in another province (where I bought it) but they don't want to give me the Quebec plates if it doesn't meet their standards! There are many reasons I can't wait to leave this province!

[wmkbailey]

In Maryland we only need at least four of the following, Cooking facilities, Refrigerator or Icebox, Self Contained Toilet, Heating and/or AC, potable water supply including sink, Electrical supply or LP gas supply.

[Malkieri]

Can't you just set up an address in another province to register it to? I know there are many rv'ers here in the states registered in Tx that have never lived here. I am pretty sure escapees website mentions it and helps set it up. maybe your buddy who sold it to you can help you there.... use his address?

[paxye]

Originally Posted by Malkieri

Can't you just set up an address in another province to register it to? I know there are many rv'ers here in the states registered in Tx that have never lived here. I am pretty sure escapees website mentions it and helps set it up. maybe your buddy who sold it to you can help you there.... use his address?

It is already registered under my name in another province but I can't get plates here in Quebec or in that province because I would not only need the province address, but I would also need to have a provincial licence.

So... I have a few questions.
My floors are not the conventional rubber that I see in all of the conversions. It is thick, and looks like the same material as a school floor and does not seem to have any plywood underneath. The closest I have seen to our floors is in Accordian's bus in which he did not rip out the floors and instead build insulation and flooring on top of that. What would you do? I don't mind losing and inch or two and build directly on top of it but I don't want to risk rust. I actually think that the metal looks pretty decent from the underside of the bus but you see it from there?

Next question is the about the Webasto... Well it is actually a Eberspacher and it is disconnected but still there. First what do these units actually do? and is it worth it to try to get it connected and working again?

We have not done any work on the bus yet. I am going to try get it inspected next week (they are not sure that they can before it is fully converted) and then go to the SAAQ with my four kids and just not say too much about it, never call it a bus (it is registered as a converted motorhome already) , and just hope they don't ask too many questions and try to get the plates. Maybe if the kids are distractive and they will just want us to get out of there

Basically I would like to be able to drive it around at times because there are a few things that I am not comfortable with doing on my own and a few things that will not be able to be done while it is in our narrow driveway.

I am still nervous about all of the rivets and I need to get a wall down that was up as part of the original bus use and I am not too usre on how it is installed there.... I don't know if we are going to keep the heaters or the TransAir yet. They all take up so much space that I find we just don't have with 6 of us going to be living in there.

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

We kept our heaters. The front is still hooked up "normally". The rear heat exchanger/12vDC fans we pulled, drained, shortened & reconnected the hoses to each other to maintain flow. We acquired a small vintage 6 gallon LP RV water heater (dirt cheap), added a Camco "hot rod" to it and installed it. It will heat pet safe anti freeze (either with LP or with AC) that will flow thru the heat exchanger that is now mounted under the bus behind the rear axle with a air return hole cut into the floor. The heat will be ducted to the various "rooms" in the bus using PVC pipe. The ducts will also spill heated air into the insulated water bays to help keep the tanks from freezing. We have a small Dynaglo LP heater (one made to use inside) hanging on the wall in the bathroom area. We will add an LP heater in the fireplace mantle in the front salon as well.

I am trying to picture this and I just can't!! Do you have any link to images or schematics that explain it? I am visual so I find it really hard when just reading it like that....

I have to say... I LOVE Youtube or the great blogs and conversion threads here that add pictures!!!