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Old 01-18-2014, 03:51 PM   #11
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Cummins engines start in any climate. No glow plugs, just a simple 12 volt air heater in the intake. A hair dryer will do the same thing if yours is from the south.

Forget welding on anything that is not 1/4 inch thick. Every weld I have seen from the factory breaks from fatigue. Your bus was built with rivets, continue building with rivets.

Each support rib in the roof of the bus can hold 500 pounds. As long as your snow machines are sitting length wize, you will not need to add anything more than a simple deck, and proper tie downs bolted into the support ribs.

Crane needs to be mounted to the frame of the bus, with support to the roof to keep it from buckling sideways. Also don't over do the deck up top. A bit of common sense mixed with a bit of engineering can make a strong unit without tipping your bus over. A few of the decks I have seen built on this site are unreal heavy.

wmkbailey did his roof raise without lifting the front and rear clip. This created a curved spot that needed some special skills to fill in. Much simpler method would be to cut the entire roof off including the front and rear clips. By doing so you will have enough room to add a walk through door at the back. Front can be filled with a bigger windshield. Flat glass is cut to any size you make the opening. So if you add a foot of height in your roof raise, you get a foot taller windshield. Much nicer to see the mountains through. Leaving the roof in one piece at one height is stronger than cutting the roof into pieces.

Get the pieces you need to raise the roof made by having a steel shop bend flat steel into ribs that fit into the support ribs. You will be carrying weight up there, don't mess around with pipe. Also forget the welding, and rivet this together with 1/4 rivets. 1/4 steel rivets have a minimum of 500 pounds shear. 4 down each side, and 4 down the middle, so 24 rivets per support rib that will be loaded. Front ones will only need 3 rivets per side, so 12 rivets per support rib. A simple pneumatic rivet tool is only a few hundred bucks compared to $1000 plus for a welder that will weld, not make bird ****.

I add this picture to help clarify what I'm talking about.


Nat
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:57 PM   #12
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

+1 on using rivets. Especially solid steel if you can get 'em! I honestly don't expect many people to take that route, but I've gotta say I had a good bit of fun with it. Probably overkill in a lot of situations, but that's what the body on my bus originally used and I wanted to stick with the same look and strength. To tell you the truth, the shop-head on most of my rivets look better than the originals. Bit of a learning curve (couple hours of practise, minimum), requires 2 people, but once you get the technique down it's damn fast and a good bit of fun. *POW POW POW* Wear ear plugs. From my supplier they were also an order of magnitude cheaper than blind rivets.
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:43 PM   #13
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Due to the compression ratios diesel engines use, the average viscosity of the oil, and a couple other factors, no diesel is going to start unassisted in -30f weather. It will need to be plugged in. They do not add glow plugs or heated intakes to buses in colder climates, unless someone decides to add an aftermarket heated intake. Some manufacturers use them, some don't (older buses, at least), it's that simple. They will usually add block heaters, though, in colder climates. Imho, a block heater and 2 large amperage batteries are the way to go. I have 2 1000 cca batteries in mine and a block heater. I haven't started my bus in months and it is 15f outside, so I just went out and started it. Block heater wasn't plugged in and it fired right up. Any colder and I always plug it in for an hour before I start it. I have started it down to -20f and if it us plugged in, it will start as if it is summer out. Incidentaly, I don't have a heated intake OR glow plugs
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:28 PM   #14
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeC
They do not add glow plugs or heated intakes to buses in colder climates. Some manufacturers use them, some don't (older buses, at least), it's that simple. They will usually add block heaters, though, in colder climates. Imho, a block heater and 2 large amperage batteries are the way to go. I have 2 1000 cca batteries in mine and a block heater. I haven't started my bus in months and it is 15f outside, so I just went out and started it. Block heater wasn't plugged in and it fired right up. Any colder and I always plug it in for an hour before I start it. I have started it down to -20f and if it us plugged in, it will start as if it is summer out. Incidentaly, I don't have a heated intake OR glow plugs
Well, I'm truly no real diesel mechanic, but I've done my fair share of research regarding the dt466 on diesel forums and certain people disagree with at least the statement on heated air intakes (grid heaters?). One quick quote from Hvytrkmech at http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...t-t299239.html:
Quote:
No glow plugs or grid heater in the dt466 until 2004 then they put grid heaters in them dependent on geographical location.
Similar statements pop up here and there, but I don't actually know these guys so it could be good old fashioned hogwash. I'll trust your knowledge since you've posted credibly in the past.

You're most certainly right on glow plugs, though. I can't imagine an engine producer making different heads, or plugging up the glow plug holes with bolts or whatever Don't know what I was thinking there. Perhaps 'working' glow plugs is more accurate. I know my engine won't start without 'em below -10C. Tried and tested.
Too true about the block heaters, though. You simply won't find a bus up here without one. They're important to use when you can, but I'm glad I can start without plugging in. Don't always have the option out and about...
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:53 PM   #15
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

It must be your diesel fuel there in the south. Here our fuel stations switch to #2 in winter. Both my Cummins trucks did start at -30C. They run like ****, real slow, cough and sputter for a min, but yes, they do start. I didn't run synthetic oil either. Just good old 15-40.

Bottom line, its hard as hell on the engine. 99% of engine wear happens in the first 20 seconds after its started. My 92 B700 has only one 1500 watt block heater, and the intake grid heater. My 92 TC2000 has two 1500 watt block heaters, and no intake grid heater.

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Old 01-18-2014, 10:08 PM   #16
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty

Well, I'm truly no real diesel mechanic, but I've done my fair share of research regarding the dt466 on diesel forums and certain people disagree with at least the statement on heated air intakes (grid heaters?). One quick quote from Hvytrkmech at http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...t-t299239.html:
Quote:
No glow plugs or grid heater in the dt466 until 2004 then they put grid heaters in them dependent on geographical location.
Similar statements pop up here and there, but I don't actually know these guys so it could be good old fashioned hogwash. I'll trust your knowledge since you've posted credibly in the past.

You're most certainly right on glow plugs, though. I can't imagine an engine producer making different heads, or plugging up the glow plug holes with bolts or whatever Don't know what I was thinking there. Perhaps 'working' glow plugs is more accurate. I know my engine won't start without 'em below -10C. Tried and tested.
Too true about the block heaters, though. You simply won't find a bus up here without one. They're important to use when you can, but I'm glad I can start without plugging in. Don't always have the option out and about...
I could be wrong on the grid heaters. I just have NEVER seen any concrete proof, especially when I've researched manufacturers data. Your post makes me second guess myself, though.
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:23 PM   #17
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

What size is the intake on the 466? will the grid heater from a Cummins fit.

If it was summer, I would walk across the road and look. I live walking distance from 200 buses.

Best part is they moved there after I moved here. Perfect for a bus addict like me.

Nat
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:52 PM   #18
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
What size is the intake on the 466? will the grid heater from a Cummins fit.

If it was summer, I would walk across the road and look. I live walking distance from 200 buses.

Best part is they moved there after I moved here. Perfect for a bus addict like me.

Nat
It's big Idk why someone would even want one on an older dt though. If it can turn over, it'll start.

That's pretty awesome about the buses!
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:52 AM   #19
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

We're talking about two different things here. The glow/intake heater does just that heats the air so that it will be easier to fire. Many small diesels with glow plugs won't start with out using them no matter how warm it is. I don't know of any big diesels that have glow plugs. A block heater heats the water or oil so that the engine will be easier to turn over. IE: spin it faster it will start easier.
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:30 AM   #20
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Re: Adventure Bus - Build Log

Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa
We're talking about two different things here. The glow/intake heater does just that heats the air so that it will be easier to fire. Many small diesels with glow plugs won't start with out using them no matter how warm it is. I don't know of any big diesels that have glow plugs. A block heater heats the water or oil so that the engine will be easier to turn over. IE: spin it faster it will start easier.
We understood the definitions, not sure what made you think otherwise. The t444e has glowplugs and it's found in buses. Also, it will start if they are failed and it is warm out.
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