Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-02-2019, 04:37 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1
All these engines are swirling in my head now.

I am currently looking at a Bluebird all American with the Cat 3116 and Allison combo. All injectors have been replaced but the timing is a bit off on cylinder 5 so she smokes a little when at idle but perfectly fine on the highway. 59mph is her top speed which is going to be a problem for me. Does anyone have any insight on this engine? Should I spring for this one or wait for the bigger Thomas with the 3126 or cummins?
Desmondgibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 05:34 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
david.dgeorge07's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 1,130
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: CAT 3126
Which transmission? They are nearly all Allison, but the model matters a lot. The 545 is generally agreed as the least desirable.

There are plenty of fish in the sea, so if you’ve just started looking don’t get carried away too fast.

That said, I sometimes wonder ‘what if’ about the first bus I test drove: an ‘02 Thomas pusher with a DT 466e, MD 3060, and air ride. I passed because the rear main seal was leaking bad enough to worry about.

I like my CAT 3126, MD 3060, and the leaf springs are nice and stable...but, that was a pretty nice bus I said ‘no’ to.

The other day I was getting diesel and happened to be across the pump from a pusher school bus fueling up for the day. We started talking drivetrain, and he said his last bus had a CAT and he never had any trouble with it. His current bus was the (his air quotes) “bulletproof DT 466e” and he said had given him trouble.

He didn’t elaborate further. Not sure the year, but this was recent and he said it was going to be retired soon, so maybe ‘02 thru ‘05 ish?

Who knows? All of this bus business is a gamble at some point, so do your homework, make your best guess and be ok with whatever the outcome is. Bumps are part of the ride, but they aren’t that big of a deal if you’re at peace with them before they come.
__________________
My Build Thread:

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/4-...ner-18205.html
david.dgeorge07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 06:30 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 10,895
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
every bus is some sort of gamble.. as the engines got newer things like using the incorrect coolant coulds damage it, or someone simply overheated it once and started the engine down the rabbit hole of a slow death .. some of that like over-heat events can be read from the engine computer.. but other things like poor maintenance cannot...



as far as david? I likely wouldve done what he did.. passed a bus with a major leak up for one that runs right... maybe not now since i know the insides and out of a lot of these engines.,. but before I did, definitely..



if you have a shop and have spent alot of time wrenching on various diesels over the years then you can probably score a deal by buying a bus with some defect (and is still driveable).. bring it home, fix it, and drive it.. otherwise its best to find something that at the time you drive it off is working properly to the best of your knowledge..
certain things are almost always going to cost lots of $$.. ie if you look at a bus and its throwing transmission limp codes or clutch slippage codes.. you know at that point its going to require a replace or rebuilt transmission.. not cheap with an allison 2000/3000 at any time..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 06:45 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Johnny Mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Posts: 870
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E 7.3L
Timing does not go off on one cylinder. Keep looking.
__________________
Mullet's Thunder Bus Build
Johnny Mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 06:49 PM   #5
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 4,592
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
Timing does not go off on one cylinder. Keep looking.
That was something I thought maybe I hadn't learned about these diesels?
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 07:07 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 10,895
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
That was something I thought maybe I hadn't learned about these diesels?

unless you have a HEUI engine (3126, 444E, 466E) with a Lazy injector.. then it will push the shot late and short... or sometimes sticks and causes a long shot which makes smoke.. but a 3116 is mechanical... probably just worn out..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 07:53 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 16,825
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmondgibbs View Post
I am currently looking at a Bluebird all American with the Cat 3116 and Allison combo. All injectors have been replaced but the timing is a bit off on cylinder 5 so she smokes a little when at idle but perfectly fine on the highway. 59mph is her top speed which is going to be a problem for me. Does anyone have any insight on this engine? Should I spring for this one or wait for the bigger Thomas with the 3126 or cummins?
I have a Cat 3126 and I like it.
I'd hold off on a 3116 that isn't running perfectly though. The injectors are a total PITA I've been told.
But you didn't mention price. If the bus is totally cherry and yet totally cheap it could be worth it. I'd pass though.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 07:55 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 16,825
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07 View Post
Which transmission? They are nearly all Allison, but the model matters a lot. The 545 is generally agreed as the least desirable.

There are plenty of fish in the sea, so if you’ve just started looking don’t get carried away too fast.

That said, I sometimes wonder ‘what if’ about the first bus I test drove: an ‘02 Thomas pusher with a DT 466e, MD 3060, and air ride. I passed because the rear main seal was leaking bad enough to worry about.

I like my CAT 3126, MD 3060, and the leaf springs are nice and stable...but, that was a pretty nice bus I said ‘no’ to.

The other day I was getting diesel and happened to be across the pump from a pusher school bus fueling up for the day. We started talking drivetrain, and he said his last bus had a CAT and he never had any trouble with it. His current bus was the (his air quotes) “bulletproof DT 466e” and he said had given him trouble.

He didn’t elaborate further. Not sure the year, but this was recent and he said it was going to be retired soon, so maybe ‘02 thru ‘05 ish?

Who knows? All of this bus business is a gamble at some point, so do your homework, make your best guess and be ok with whatever the outcome is. Bumps are part of the ride, but they aren’t that big of a deal if you’re at peace with them before they come.
I went to "the dark side" and bought a Cat because I can't afford to fix Navistar's crappy design and manufacturing.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2019, 10:48 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 502
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
how can...

How is the timing off on only one cylinder? More smoke sounds more like an injector problem.... leaking injector. The last engine I had with a leaking injector-leaking into the cylinder.... burned that piston.

william
magnakansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2019, 07:00 AM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 10,895
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
How is the timing off on only one cylinder? More smoke sounds more like an injector problem.... leaking injector. The last engine I had with a leaking injector-leaking into the cylinder.... burned that piston.

william

its easy to burn a piston or dilute the oil to the point all your bearings are toast with a rogue injector
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.