baadpuppy's bus... unleashed

[baadpuppy]

It's been almost a year since I bought my bus, and I'm sad to say no progress has been made on the conversion front. Life has intruded on the budget, and things are unfortunately delayed.

However, I've finally come up with a name for the bus after much thought and dissatisfaction with all the ideas I kept coming up with. Yep, it is named 'unleashed'.

And, in order to prompt me to actually make some progress, I'm starting this thread to follow the progress.

Currently unleashed is being used as a temporary storage shed. That will change early this summer when the weather starts to cooperate again.

I've got a lot of plans that I've been refining in my head for this conversion. I'm definitely planning a roof raise this summer. Most of the rest of the planning and work have been postponed pending the roof raise.

My bus is currently 10' in height, and I plan to raise it to 13' in height. The extra 36" of headroom inside will hopefully let me install a loft bedroom/reading nook above the cockpit area.

Behind the cockpit area, I plan to have a raised living area for the living room, kitchen, and bathroom. The main bedroom in the rear I plan to not have raised. I figure by making the raised area 18" to 24" up from the "real" floor, I gain extra storage space and space to put tanks between the two floors. Having the extra storage kept low will help keep the center of gravity down. I've not seen where anyone else has done this before, so maybe I'm crazy.

I plan to have a side aisle from the front living space to the bedroom rather than a center aisle. It will obviously be a center aisle from the cockpit to the main living space though.

I'm planning on having under-floor radiant hydronic heating. I'm still looking for a webasto diesel fired boiler for the system. I'll use that for my hot water as well. I also plan to have a heat exchanger between the engine and the heating/hot water system.

For A/C, I plan to have a split air system with the compressor in the basement area underneath the real floor. I also plan to have the battery bank live there.

I'm working on refactoring my life to be less energy demanding. I used to plan to have a full 50A 220V service, but as time has gone by and I've done research I've decided that the better answer was to reduce my power requirements.

I bought a bunch of bistable flip flop switches. These pull current only for a few seconds when the button is pushed, and change the circuit from off to on or on to off and then draw no current keeping it that way. Like a relay with no power load. These originally came out of drink machines or pinball type arcade games, and consist of 2 double throw switches with a selenoid that does the actual flipping. I plan to use them instead of real switches everywhere, and use a single momentary push button to toggle things on and off. This approach makes it easy to have multiple switches for a single item without having a lot of current carrying long run wires.

There are other ideas running around in my head, and I don't know which of them will find expression in unleashed.

I'll update this thread as more ideas come along, and more importantly, as progress is made.

jim

[Redbear]

Good luck now that your energies are being 'unleashed.' I like your thoughts on center of gravity, heating, and electric. Personally, I don't want extreme height so I don't worry about low hanging branches and wires, but the great thing about skoolies is that the design doesn't have to please anyone but you.

[baadpuppy]

I plan to live in my bus full time once it is ready. I hope to travel the country with it, including up to alaska.

Due to the fact that it will be my sole residence, I want as many cubic feet available to me as I can get. That's the primary motivation to raise the roof.

I do plan to tow with the bus as well. I'm not entirely sure yet just what I'll be towing though. I've been thinking of trying to get an enclosed trailer and keep a car inside.

One reason for reducing my energy needs is to save money. Basically, I haven't yet solved the problem of how I'll be earning money while living on the road, so I need to keep my operating expenses as low as I can.

I figure my driving time will primarily be short trips from wherever I'm tired of to the next new place then park for a while and enjoy the new place. By short, I mean less than 300 miles. So my primary focus is on livability of the conversion. No need to win any races.

Low branches and wires are a minor concern, but as 13'6" is legal in all 50 states, I hope that won't be too much of a problem.

For a generator, I've been leaning towards a pair of the hondas or yamahas. I'd love to add solar and perhaps even wind power as well. However, those are currently low priorities. I plan to pre-wire for such features to be added later.

Thanks for the encouragement guys!
jim

[timbuk]

i will tell you this from experience you can spend tooo much time building and not enough using....EASY! that goes for hot rods too...right Smity Keep on buildin Baadpuppy..Timbuk

[baadpuppy]

Seems my bus is going to the birds... literally!

I had to move the bus around the yard so we could cut grass and clean up gumballs (the "fruit" of the sweet gum tree which has a tendency to twist ankles and grow anywhere).

When I bought the bus, the previous owner had stripped the bus and prepped it for paint. So, in order to drive it home, we had to put it back together enough to drive safely and legally. We didn't bother putting the 8-way lights in the holes because they weren't needed.

As you can imagine, this resulted in some fun driving time when I drove through a rough rainstorm and it rained inside the cabin.

Anyway, this spring some birds decided to nest in the rear "school bus" window compartment. They have 4 eggs. So, I guess I won't be raising the roof before they have a chance to hatch and grow old enough to be evicted.

Of course, there's still the stuff being stored in the bus. My uncle passed away last month and some of his belongings are stored in the bus until they can be sold. There's some neat things, like a Princo precision barometer that isn't even manufactured anymore due to the use of mercury.

Anyway, I think what I might do to prep for the roof raise is start pulling down the upper wire chase so I can identify which circuits need to be re-routed.

I took a few pictures today. They can be seen here.

jim

[newbusser]

I just got my bus and have just gotten started stripping the interior. I have found most of my ideas and the steps to accomplish them here on this forum. I know I will never get the money i am investing back in my wallet, but i will get it back in the form of sanity! I work in the city every day driving a transit bus and everyone thinks I'm nuts for buying my Blue Bird. They just don't know! except for the two other drivers who have done the same thing I am doing now. They just smile and nod their heads.

I try to do something bus related every day, whether it is sharing the stupid things I have done with it here, along with the things I had to do to make it right again. or even just looking over plans.

Radiant heat in floor sounds nice, but I am afraid I will have a leak, so am staying with good insulating and gas/elec heating. I already have a pretty good solar set up out of a fifth wheel I salvaged, so am going to wire that in when I get to that stage.

Good luck and keep posting your progress! It encourages others...a lot

[baadpuppy]

well, today I dug deeper into the electrical system.

Above the windshield there is a switch box. It swings down, and behind it is the main body power selenoid. There is also the 8-way controller back there.

Electrical archeology is always fun. From what I saw today, I must conclude that the bus was purchased before strobe lights were a requirement, and the strobe was wired in several years after it was on the road. It also appears that the bus barn wired in a 2-way radio in the 800MHz range (judging by the antenna), probably a motorola trunking system. The air horns were added after purchase.

Several of the wiring harness connectors are making poor contact. One of them is partially melted. I believe it is the one that originally provided power to the 8-way lights. Turns out there is a lot of wiring in there that isn't needed anymore, and all I have to do is isolate the circuits and then start trimming (carefully!).

My goal is to get all of the overhead electrical down closer to the drivers seat. I also want to make it so that you can operate body electrical without chassis electrical. I want to be able to operate the parking lights, air horn, and strobe without the damned all purpose nothing is wrong buzzer buzzing. Speaking of the strobe, is it legal to operate that on the roads without being a real schoolbus?

jim

[baadpuppy]

Well, today I finished getting the overhead control panel removed. I labeled each wire that I pulled from a switch, and I labeled all the connectors with a letter so I would make sure A went to A etc, even though they were all keyed differently. I just wanted to be absolutely sure I got them back correctly.

I disconnected the heavy gauge wire from the main fuse panel that fed the solenoid for the body circuits. It makes me less uncomfortable working in the tight space knowing I won't accidentally short that sucker to ground.

The entire wiring harness is now removed from the overhead forward section, and is currently hanging down behind the driver's seat. There is only 1 hot wire in the whole bundle, and I haven't tracked down what is feeding it yet.

I removed the wiring chase cover down the drivers side and some of it on the passenger side. Unfortunately, there is a lot of "stuff" being stored in the bus, so I can't get to all of them yet.

I discovered little birds are living in the empty space above the door. Do all school buses have a dead space there? I've been surprised at how much dead space I keep finding.

It is nice to finally be seeing some progress.

Some pics of the roof raising prep work can be found at: http://gallery.giffords.net/v/thomas/raiseprep/. I'll be updating that gallery as I go along with the prep work.

jim

[baadpuppy]

today was at least as hot as yesterday. ugh.

Yesterday evening I decided to not risk having birds flying around the interior of the bus, so I taped off 2 of the 4 flasher holes in the front and but a piece of pink foam insulation in the sign window area to block the other two from the interior of the vehicle. The mother bird can still get in and out to feed her chicks. And listening to them cheeping, I think she needs to get hustling.

I worked on the wiring harnesses some more today. I cut the wires for the radio and speakers out completely. When I finish my conversion, that old crappy radio won't be there nor will those old crappy speakers. So, one thing off the list. Additionally, I removed one harness that was only associated with the 8-way flashers. I cut the electrical tape off of all 30+ feet of the wiring running thru the wire chase above the driver side windows. The ones associated with the 8-ways have been pulled to the back. I identified the rest of them, and cleaned them up. Turns out that harness has the following 6 wires: tail, stop, left, right, reverse, clearance. Someone must not have realized how to turn on the clearance lights because they had tied tail to clearance so the clearance lights came on with the running lights.

I took out most of the speakers and overhead interior lights today. Left a few because I couldn't get to them for the stuff being stored in my bus. I pulled off the rest of the passenger side wire chase cover except for one bit which has two screws with stripped heads. My T-20 torx bit is also getting a bit stripped. I'll have to pick some up this week.

I pulled the front panel off to get access to additional radio wiring and pulled and cut out all of that as well. Just have about 6 feet worth of speaker wire left in an area that is currently not accessible.

Even with all the circuit butchery that I've done, the bus still cranks up and moves. All the normal lights work too except the clearance lights, which are currently completely disconnected.

I took more pictures today and added them to the ones from yesterday. They can be found at http://gallery.giffords.net/v/thomas/raiseprep/ starting on page 2.

I'm running out of things to do for roof raise prep while stuff is stored inside the bus. So, I have to figure out other things I can do to the bus without disturbing the contents or the birds and without interfering with the future roof raising.

jim

[swinada]

hey wish you good luck and lots of sunshine on your Roof raising project.
I looked through all your pictures and was wondering what the deal was with the motorhome, did you plan to rebuild that or just salvage for parts? What was wrong with it to begin with? I know in some of the pictures you mentionend water damage. So was this a very cheap buy of a motorhome that was drowned out, flooded or what?

[baadpuppy]

Originally Posted by swinada

hey wish you good luck and lots of sunshine on your Roof raising project.
I looked through all your pictures and was wondering what the deal was with the motorhome, did you plan to rebuild that or just salvage for parts? What was wrong with it to begin with? I know in some of the pictures you mentionend water damage. So was this a very cheap buy of a motorhome that was drowned out, flooded or what?

Ahh.. When I first conceived the notion of full time mobile living, I was all gung-ho and clueless. I researched RVs and was still clueless. I decided I wanted a Class A motorhome approximately 30' in length. I didn't have much money. I jumped on the first one I found in the right price range and distance range. I went and looked at it and noticed some problems but figured I could deal with them. I got it for $5,500, which was $1,000 off the asking price.

Did I mention I was clueless?

That old motorhome had so many problems I didn't know anything about. First of all, it steers wherever it wants to. The frame has quite a bit of rust on it, as does anything else underneath the RV. The old 460 ford ran good and got OK gas mileage, and the C4 transmission also worked well. However, some belts kept slipping/breaking and I never was able to get the power steering belt and pump to work right. I put about $1,100 worth of new tires on it and started tearing out the water damaged areas I found after I had it a while. See, moving it after it sat for a few years caused a lot of leaks. Part way through that, I decided it would be better to just rebuild the entire interior. However, during deconstruction, I began to see what a piece of crap I had. The max GVWR was only 16,000 pounds, and it wasn't far from that empty.

This old RV would've been just fine for short term camping after having the leaks patched. I was wanting something for full time living, and it was the wrong choice.

After reading several conversion stories here, and von slatt's conversion, then the millicent chronicles, I became convinced I had made a mistake and it was time to stop compounding it by throwing more money at it.

I also figured if I was basically taking a big empty box and building a "home" for myself, it would be better to not be limited to the plumbing choices someone else made. Again, a big empty school bus made more sense.

With a skoolie, I have a stronger frame and body, a better driveline, 33,280 pound GVWR, air brakes (and horn), and a MUCH easier driving experience. I can modify it easily (a relative term). I can trust that the walls won't turn to mush due to rain.

So it has been an expensive path for me to get to this point. I'm actually reusing very little from the gutted RV in my conversion. Maybe some of the windows in the short term until I can afford double-pane ones.

We are actually planning to use the water tank, 12V lights, hot water heater, kitchen sink, and stove/oven in the summer kitchen we are building. This summer we'll be cooking outdoors keeping the heat out of the main house.

I don't think I've mentioned it before, but I'm currently living in an approx. 300 sq ft garage apartment in my parents back yard. I help them with things around the house and yard (like building the summer kitchen), and they are helping me with my bus conversion. It is "farm" country, so no problems with neighbors complaining about the bus (much).

Now that I've bought one RV, I know a LOT more about what I want and need, and about what NOT to do or buy.

I've decided I don't want a propane fridge. I don't think we'll use one in the summer kitchen either, so the one from the motorhome will likely go on the for sale page here soon.

The RV toilet and black water tank are going to go into a custom built outhouse on wheels to be kept near the pool, keeping people from tracking dirt and water into the house. We have a complete RV hookup available, so we can just pull the outhouse over to the dump station every so often.

So there's quite a bit of background there. I've learned a lot since deciding to minimize my life and live mobile (which was about 2 years ago now). I'm finally on the right path.

This summer we do plan to finish disassembling the old RV and selling off what we can and recycling what we can. I expect the frame will get some money at the salvage yard. Hopefully someone will want the entire driveline. I'm also hopeful that I can find someone wanting the wheels and tires.

jim

[swinada]

hey thanks for the informative reply. i would keep all the drawers, cabinet doors, mirrors etc. from that RV, and for sure the swivel chairs. keep us updated with lots of pictures of your progress.

edit: and of course the RV windows will be easy to fit in since you already lifting the roof.

[baadpuppy]

Already kept all of those items. Planning to use them in the summer kitchen.

The doors and drawers and mirrors, etc don't match me, so I won't be installing them in the bus.

The windows are single pane. Long term, that won't be acceptible to me. However, if I happen to have a single pane window close to the size I need for a location, I'll use it planning to upgrade to double pane later when I can afford it.

The swivel chairs are all a mess. Sure, someone could rebuild them, and the mechanical bits are mostly ok. However, the bases are bolted into the RV and the bolts are rusted bad. I'm going to have to use an angle grinder and hope it works. I tried a cutoff wheel and eventually gave up after starting a few small fires.

Speaking of fires, the first chair I tried to remove was right over the propane tank. Another reason I gave up at that point. This RV did come with a half a tank of gasoline and a full tank of propane. We're still trying to use up all the propane. The fuel tank is currently down to about half, and we need to use that fuel up as well. That's about 45 gallons at $3+ per gallon. The fuel tank is rusted a lot on the outside, dunno about the inside.

The water tank and pump and accumulator will be used for the summer kitchen. We often have power outages here for no apparent cause (ie, drunk drivers), and the thought is that we could still cook and have potable water during outages. In the winter time, we'll move the tank to the basement and keep it stocked with fresh water every month, as winter outages are often caused by snow, ice, rain, wind, drunk drivers, etc.

That's not quite as handy as a generator, but still a far sight better than what we currently have.

Speaking of generator, the RV has an older onan 5500 gasoline generator that needs the carb cleaned/rebuilt and should work just fine. The disadvantage is that it is 110V only, no 220V. The pump for the house requires 220, so it won't be useful for that. On the other hand, it should do just fine maintaining a few other essential circuits in the house. So, it'll be going into a custom enclosure near the house to be used in power outages.

The RV also has 2 roof top 13,500 BTU A/C units that are in good shape (aged plastic, but still functional). I'm not going to use a rooftop A/C on my bus, but will instead go with a split air system with the compressor in the "basement" space. I'm hoping that when we finish my full-timer bus that my parents will be interested in building themselves a weekender/camper bus, and then we could use those A/C units on that. Or, they might get sold before then. Dunno yet.

The converter from the RV was a piece of crap. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

The radio in the RV was cheap. The VCR and TV were toast and went to the dump over a year ago. Some of the countertops have been saved. The shower has been reused as a rinsing tub in one of our buildings. Something mom does with it with her wine making or something, I don't know for sure.

The roof of the RV is pitted aluminum. I'm hoping to recycle that (or use it somewhere). The sides are nice sheets of fiberglass, and we plan to use them on projects around the yard. The windshields are still in one piece, and might be worth something to someone, but I don't know how I'd find a person wanting them. Perhaps craigslist will help.

There is still a cabinet mountable microwave that hasn't found a home. We originally thought we'd use it in the summer kitchen, but decided to use a newer model that I had in storage instead.

All in all, it was an expensive lesson.

I hear all too often on the rv forum I hang out on that newbies don't know what to look for when buying their first RV, and I have to say I think that is always true unless you've had one for a while (rental, borrowing, etc). Once you are in one and find all the limitations that irritate you, you then know what to search for. In my case, the specs I want lead to either a provost or a skoolie. I don't have a provost budget... so I'll get the more budget-minded choice and have it MY way.

Ah well, I digress. Know anyone that wants 6 8x19.5" wheels and tires with wheel simulators with less than 500 miles on them and only a bit over a year old?

jim

[Redbear]

Speaking of generator, the RV has an older onan 5500 gasoline generator that needs the carb cleaned/rebuilt and should work just fine. The disadvantage is that it is 110V only, no 220V.

You might be in luck. Try to find a manual on the genny. Some (most?) of the Onans, for example the 6 kW RV "Emerald," have dual windings that can be paralleled for high current at 120 volts, or "series-ed" in phase for 240-volt operation. It just requires switching a couple of wires on a terminal block, knowing which ones to switch, and maybe replacing the output breakers.

[baadpuppy]

redbear, that's the hope. There's an authorized service center near work that I plan to take it to. He has a manual for this model and has offered to loan it to me. I ordered the official manual, but it was for a different model. Seems cummins-onan mixed up their documentation index.

Converting it to 220 would be awesome though.

jim

[baadpuppy]

Originally Posted by baadpuppy

...this spring some birds decided to nest in the rear "school bus" window compartment. They have 4 eggs. So, I guess I won't be raising the roof before they have a chance to hatch and grow old enough to be evicted.

The eggs have hatched. Looks like 3 chicks.


can't wait till they're old enough to kick to the curb.

jim

[ezbme]

Ahhh, there are the tenants outta their shells! So Jim, what are you doing with your propane fridge? How big (or small) is it?

[baadpuppy]

Yep, both sets of tenants are now out of their shells. 2 sets of 3 cheepers makes for a noisy bus.

I'm planning to sell the propane fridge. It is fully functional, on propane or 110 VAC. It requires +12 VDC for the control board either way. It is faster to get cold and more efficient when run off the propane though. If the AC goes out it auto-switches to gas if the valve is open. No pilot light to worry about either.

I have the manual to in the paperwork somewhere around here. Ahh, found the paperwork. It is a Norcold 662BK (had to look at the fridge). It stands about 53" high. It is 6.3 cu. ft. It has nice wood panel doors. The lower door panel has a crack from top to bottom, but that is a cosmetic issue not a functional issue.

Anyway, we used it quite a bit the summer before last and it was working great. It has been stored indoors since removal that fall. I'm planning to sell it, but haven't listed it on here yet. Soon.

jim

[baadpuppy]

Well, this weekend's progress has been minimal.

Dad and I rearranged some of the stuff stored in the bus so that I can more easily get to the back, making an aisle down the drivers side.

I moved the 6 deep cycle UPS batteries into the storage bay underneath the passenger side. That was not fun.

I removed all the removable screws from 1 roof panel, and it just about killed my arms. That's going to take a while. There are a few screws left, and they'll have to be ground off with a grinder.

I checked on the little cheepers, and they seem to be thriving. Hopefully in about 2 to 3 weeks I'll be able to evict them all.

I also removed the service panel above the engine from the interior, and looked at the air throttle assembly. It appears to be a professional installation, and is fully functional where it is. Without any real incentive, I don't think I'll relocate it to the more normal location on the front of the engine block. Reminder: make sure it is easy to access that service panel after the conversion is finished.

I also checked, and my gear selector lever is a cable type, not air type. This might make relocating it to the dash a bit more work.

Today it is raining, so there isn't much to be done.

Sorry, no new pictures this time.

jim

[baadpuppy]

Ack, I haven't updated in far too long.

Oh yeah, I haven't actually done any work on the bus other than dealing with the cursed tenants.

One day while in the bus to grab some tools, I realized I didn't hear them cheeping, so I thought I'd take a peek. About the time I got the screw out, I notice that there's something black all over the metal plate covering the nest area, and that it goes up over the ceiling towards the drivers seat. Then I realize that the black is a bunch of dots. moving dots. Oh yeah, they're also all down the wall, across the floor, crawling up my legs, all over my arms, on my head, and everywhere else!

grrrr.

These little cheepers have bird mites. Not good.

I cleaned myself up as best I could, but apparently missed some as I've been fighting the plague for the past 2 weeks. I think I've pretty much won this battle now though.

After doing research, I decided to move the bird nest out of the bus. What was I thinking? Moving a nest with 7 fledgling birds is NOT easy. During my research, I also learned the birds were starlings, and the recommendations seem to be that euthanizing them is best for everyone (except them I suspect). The recommended way was CO2 poisoning, as it is considered humane. However, I just didn't have it in me to kill mostly defenseless baby birds. That's why I tried moving the nest.

I managed to get 2 of the birds to stay in the nest long enough to get it out of the bus. That left 5 birds running around free inside the bus. grrrr.

One of the 2 that I got out of the bus decided to hide in the garage. My apartment is in the other half of that garage. So the next morning I was awakened at 6am by hungry cries. grrrr.

That night I managed to get the one from the garage evicted, and also managed to get one from the bus. It took me several more days and a lot of effort to finally get the rest of the birds out.

In the mean time, prior to trying to evict the birds, I had gone in with sevin dust. I wore gloves and a mask, and was quite liberal in applying the sevin dust, then went straight to a shower, leaving the clothes outside. The sevin dust did a great job of killing the mites. It didn't seem to have any effect on the birds.

At this point, the front 2 to 3 rows worth of my bus look like a cocaine deal gone bad. I can't leave windows or doors open without the starlings wanting to try to return. I'm a bit disheartened by the whole experience.

The birds in the back that I think might be robins are still there. The mites didn't appear to make it back there. I've done my best to just pretend they aren't there. This weekend, if they're old enough, I might start that eviction process too, using the skill I've gained from the other eviction to help. If they really are robins though, and haven't been evicted by their own parents, and there aren't any mites evident, I'll just leave them to their own course. After all, it should be less than a week until they are fully fledged.

I'm keeping an eye out for an inexpensive storage building or equivalent so I can move all the things currently stored in the bus out so I can start making some real progress again.

This weekend I also hope to start the cutdown of the old motorhome. I plan to practice with some of my tools on that junkpile before doing anything on the bus itself.

Hopefully there will be some form of progress this weekend.

jim