Betty the Bus

[austin1989us]

Saturday was a long day, but we finally made it home with our new project. We named her Betty. After B*tch*ng Betty: the automated voice in the cockpit of many aircraft that likes to complain about her problems. You’ll see why in a minute.

She's a 1988 Blue Bird TC/2000. From the plate in the bus I've figured out that she's four months older than my wife and 13 months older than me. She has a 5.9L Cummins that looks to be in great shape. Right at about 160,000 miles. She starts easily and always on the first try. Betty has the Allison AT545, and I can't see what everyone dislikes about it. I have no complaints about the transmission (so far). The axle ratio is 4.33. With 38.5" tires, that equates to about 65 mph at 2,500 rpm. With the pedal floored it does about 2,400ish rpm in the highest gear. I felt pretty comfortable at that speed. I stayed between 60-70 mph driving her in the relatively un-hilly hills of east Texas on the way home.

The bus is about 26' overall with about 22' of livable space behind the driver's seat. Not quite a shorty, but not a long bus either. The wheelbase is 12'. Sitting in front of the front axle took a little getting used to, but the bus is quite maneuverable.

Much like any vehicle that's lived in east Texas for 27 years, she has a bit of rust. Hopefully not too much. We'll see when I pull up the floor. The exhaust pipe is rusted through right after the muffler.

There's no A/C on the bus, but the fans work. The defogger works too, which was useful because it rained a lot on the ride back. There was an old wasp's nest in the fan that fell down into the blades and exploded all over me while I was driving. That freaked me out quite a bit.

Some of the taillights need some work in order to pass inspection. The stop sign doesn't work. The reflectors look ugly. One of the windows is shattered. Some of the tires are from the 1900's, so they'll need to be replaced.


So, now for the story of how Betty came into our lives on Saturday:

My wife and I left our home around 7am and picked up my father-in-law. The drive from Houston TX to Minden LA is about 4.5 hours. We stopped in Shreveport to pick up some fuel treatment and brake fluid. At O'Reilly my father-in-law told me I'd need a can of PB Blaster when taking out the seats. I picked up the can, looked at it, and put it back on the shelf (foreshadowing).

We stopped off in Minden to thank a friend of mine who checked out the bus for me a few days before. Then we headed to meet the bus we'd eventually name Betty. I bought the bus from a women's rehabilitation center. The bus was donated to them from a church in east Texas. The center's higher organization told them they'd need to put A/C in before they could use it; but that wasn't in their budget. They needed money for a new transmission in one of their vans, and have had this bus sitting for a year. They never even registered it or put insurance on it.

We checked out the bus a bit, took it for a test drive, and went and did the paperwork while my father-in-law put Rain-X on the windshield. There was a problem with some of the paperwork and we needed another signature/notary to finish the paperwork. Luckily, the place we needed to go was on the way back to Texas.

That's when the problems started . . .

We made it about 10 miles when I noticed the temperature gauge was pegged as high as it would go. Scared to death, I pulled into the nearest parking lot (a Family Dollar). We let it cool a bit while we went inside and bought some distilled water and antifreeze. The man who sold me the bus apologized and offered to take it back. My father-in-law checked the oil and it looked very clean (not milky/watery). We opened the radiator to add water, but it took less than two quarts. The sight glass showed a beautifully clean green color.

We got back in the bus, fired it up, and the temperature gauge immediately went back to normal. A mile or so later the gauge spiked back up as high as it would go. I tapped on the gauge and it went back to normal. My father-in-law thinks there may be a problem with the sending unit.

We stopped off at a gas station to fuel up and add the diesel treatment. The compartment where the tank is located is a little cramped, and it’s hard to get the nozzle in to fill up. I’m not sure how big my tank is, but it took 20 gallons and the fuel gauge went from about a quarter to about three quarters full.

We got back on the road and then had another problem. The bus wouldn’t shift out of first gear. Less than a mile of that and the transmission was getting pretty hot. We pulled off in to the nearest parking lot (a Baptist church).

Upon further inspection, we noticed that the right rear brake was extremely hot. I’d been told that there was a very slow leak in the hydraulic braking system, so during the test drive I slammed the brakes to make sure they worked. Someone at some point had put disc brakes on it.

We called around trying to find a truck service that’d come out to fix it. One recommended spraying the brake with PB Blaster and trying to move it with a screwdriver. The thought being that some rust probably got dislodged and was holding the brake pad against the rotor. My wife and father-in-law went to get PB blaster while the man selling the bus went to finish the paperwork. I sat in the bus and seriously contemplated the offer to call the deal off.

We soaked the brake in PB Blaster and drove it around a bit. It was still a little hot, but the bus shifted gears, so we limped it back to the gas station we were at earlier. We went inside the diner (Huddle House) and ate dinner. That was around 6pm and we hadn’t eaten since breakfast. At dinner my wife asked me what we were going to name the bus. I couldn’t think of anything nice to say about it. That’s when B*tch*ng Betty popped into my head.

We were waiting on a call back because a lady at the truck service said she’d get us a quote to fix the brake and put some new (to us) tires on it. I had a dollar amount in my head that I was willing to spend, otherwise I’d take the offer to return the bus and call it a wasted day.

The lady at the trucking service didn’t call us back. We called her after dinner. She said to drop the bus off at her shop and they’d get us the quote on Monday.

We drove the bus to her shop, intently focused on the gauges, with my wife behind us in her truck looking for smoke coming from the brake. Right around sunset we parked the bus at her shop and out of curiosity decided to look at the brake again. That wheel was just as cold as the other four. In a couple of hours the PB Blaster must’ve dissolved some stuff and allowed the brake to work properly

In that pivotal moment, we decided to drive her back to Houston; stopping every hour just to check on things. We made it home around 2am.



So, I’m excited about this new project. My wife has been on Pinterest looking at things we need to spend money on to make it pretty. I’ve got a list of things to be done to get it mechanically sound.



This post ended up being nearly 1,400 words long. I think it’s time to wrap this up by saying that despite the minor setbacks in the first hours of owning Betty the Bus, I’m quite excited to join the skoolie community.

[HolyBus]

That's a cool looking skoolie for sure! Nice short wheelbase. If it had not been something you really wanted, would you really have put up with the issues it gave while you had a chance to return it to the seller? So you really wanted it and like it. Don't forget that feeling when things get a little ruff. Enjoy the project and every moment in it! Oh and welcome to the nut-house, I mean skoolie club!

[Scooternj]

That's one thing I love about transit styles, having trained and driven them in the Air Guard, *is* the maneuverability.

One thing to keep in mind during your build is the "bounce" factor FEs can have, and ballast the rear accordingly. As always YMMV, and good luck with the build

[austin1989us]

Originally Posted by HolyBus

That's a cool looking skoolie for sure! Nice short wheelbase. If it had not been something you really wanted, would you really have put up with the issues it gave while you had a chance to return it to the seller? So you really wanted it and like it. Don't forget that feeling when things get a little ruff. Enjoy the project and every moment in it! Oh and welcome to the nut-house, I mean skoolie club!

Thanks for the warm welcome.

In my research I'd made a list of what I wanted. Betty is just about everything I was looking for. I liked the flat nose. I wanted a shorter bus. The wheel base is very maneuverable. I wanted a Cummins. The engine seems to be in great shape. The price left me enough room in my budget to account for tires and some mechanical problems. (I spent $2,500 on the bus. My budget is $5,000 to get a good/mechanically sound bus). I saw the bus on Craigslist about a month ago and decided that I wanted one like that. Memorial day weekend my wife and I went camping and couldn't stop talking about all the different things we'd want to do with our bus. So, last week I emailed the guy and he still had it; we decided to buy it. Fortunately, I had a friend in that town who was able to look at it before we made the drive.

[austin1989us]

Originally Posted by Scooternj

That's one thing I love about transit styles, having trained and driven them in the Air Guard, *is* the maneuverability.

One thing to keep in mind during your build is the "bounce" factor FEs can have, and ballast the rear accordingly. As always YMMV, and good luck with the build

Thank you for your service.

I noticed the bounce when I took it through an intersection too fast. That was pretty scary. But not as scary as when a Greyhound bus pulled out in front of me. I was reluctant to slam the brakes for the whole trip. Luckily I was able to get around him.

I noticed a recall on the 1988 Blue Bird TC/2000 ballast. I'll have to look in to that. 1988 is the same model year as my wife, but she doesn't have any recalls that I know of.

I haven't calculated the mileage yet. Once I do some repairs and get it registered I'll take it on a few joy rides and figure that out.

[The-Breeze]

When I saw the name of your bus "BOUNCING BETTY" from MASH came to mind.

Remember, Colonel Potter "....and heeeeerrrrreeeee comes Bouncing Betty"

Just something to think about.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by austin1989us

There was an old wasp's nest in the fan that fell down into the blades and exploded all over me while I was driving. That freaked me out quite a bit.

Holy shitake!! haha.. That could have been disastrous if the nest was still occupied!

Welcome to Skoolie.net

[dond]

Welcome....and nice bus!!

[cowlitzcoach]

As you do your build out make sure you are aware of weights.

With the design of the TC2000 it already has a weight bias towards the front. If you build in heavy fixtures, tanks, battery banks, etc. between the axles you run the real risk of overloading the steer axle.

I don't think it would be possible to overload the drive axle. And the further back you put heavy stuff it will tend to unload the steer axle.

With the full weight of the engine and transmission ahead of or directly above the steer axle it isn't possible to unload it too much. Unless of course you start to load elephants or race cars in the back of the bus.

I think you will find the disc brakes were stock hydraulic units from the factory.

Good luck and happy trails!

[austin1989us]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

Unless of course you start to load elephants or race cars in the back of the bus.

I think you will find the disc brakes were stock hydraulic units from the factory.

Thanks for the advice.

How about putting a hundred or so gallons of water behind the rear axle? That should give me some leverage to take some weight off of the front.

I found the original production order (complete with hand written change orders) with the manuals and original warranty paperwork. I'll have to look to see if it was ordered with disc brakes. I didn't see it at first glance. I also noticed that the plate in the bus says it has 9x22.5 tires on it, but the production order (and the bus) has 10x22.5 tires on it. I wonder if 11x22.5 tires would fit?

[cowlitzcoach]

If you have steel spring suspension the larger tires should fit.

You will need to watch clearance issues with both the top of the fender well and front wheel rubbing at 100% left or right turn.

[austin1989us]

I dropped the bus off at the local high school on Monday (my wife knows the shop teacher). The kids in shop class were supposed to take the seats out (it's the last week of school and they're not doing anything). They just played around in the bus yesterday. They only got one seat out, but every little bit helps. Maybe they'll take out another today.

I've been playing around with layouts in Visio. This is what I've come up with so far. The measurements are close, but not quite what they'll be when it comes time to construct stuff. Visio's standard box is a framed 2x4 and I'll probably use 2x2s.

We're thinking of elevating the bedroom area. There will be two different elevations. The first step up gets us above the wheel well (with just enough standing height in the middle where I won't hit my head. The second step is the small walkway on either side of the bed. Hatch type storage and maybe some drawers under the floor in the elevated areas. Also maybe some storage in the dead space behind the bathroom wall and kitchen cabinets.

The bathroom is small, but about the size of the one in the camper we stayed in a little over a week ago. I'm thinking we'll have a sliding door that slides inside of the bathroom wall.

It'd be nice to have a dining area that can convert into a twin bed over the front driver side wheel well. The extra counter space is nice. We don't have any kid(s) right now, but when we do in the future they'll need a place to sleep. It'd also be nice to have an extra bed in case someone wants to tag along on our adventures.

My wife would like a place to sit with a small bookshelf over the other front wheel well. I'm thinking of putting some kind of swivel armchair there.

I'd like to keep the side door (handicapped door). I've got the wheelchair lift on Craigslist right now. If it doesn't sell I'll have to think up something cool to do with it. I'll put some RV style folding steps at that door so we can use it as an entry/exit. The rear exit door will not be useable in this configuration.

There will be room under the queen bed for a very large potable water tank. The elevated bed area makes for a convienent and easy place to run water lines and wiring.

I'll probably mount the gray water tank under the bus and behind the rear axle. The black tank will be directly underneath the toilet.

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by austin1989us

I've been playing around with layouts in Visio. This is what I've come up with so far. The measurements are close, but not quite what they'll be when it comes time to construct stuff. Visio's standard box is a framed 2x4 and I'll probably use 2x2s.

I don't know how much you've played around with Visio, but you can adjust the properties of the individual wall stencils. Its how I set up my floor plan as well (including using the other stencils for the cabinets and furnishings, and imported image files) although I did use the standard box room box for the outline.

[austin1989us]

Originally Posted by Scooternj

I don't know how much you've played around with Visio, but you can adjust the properties of the individual wall stencils. Its how I set up my floor plan as well (including using the other stencils for the cabinets and furnishings, and imported image files) although I did use the standard box room box for the outline.

I've been using the standard box room box for everything. Drawing individual walls seemed tedious when I started. I know how to change the setting for the walls, but not for the standard box room.

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by austin1989us

I've been using the standard box room box for everything. Drawing individual walls seemed tedious when I started. I know how to change the setting for the walls, but not for the standard box room.

Its a tedious that's necessary, while unfortunate, gives you a lot of flexibility. Once you get the outline in, with the box tool, you can then draw the individual walls, and edit their properties to suit what you need, like wall widths and heights. This way it gives you, visually, a better sense of scale and space in the floor plan. I had to get really familiar with Visio for setting up signal-secure secure rooms in my Guard Squadron.

[austin1989us]

Originally Posted by Scooternj

Its a tedious that's necessary, while unfortunate, gives you a lot of flexibility. Once you get the outline in, with the box tool, you can then draw the individual walls, and edit their properties to suit what you need, like wall widths and heights. This way it gives you, visually, a better sense of scale and space in the floor plan. I had to get really familiar with Visio for setting up signal-secure secure rooms in my Guard Squadron.

I'm basically using it like a fancy version of Microsoft Paint right now. I like that it'll give dimensions easily. I could probably do it in AutoCAD, but I'm not particularly familiar with that either.

What's this about heights? Can Visio give me a 3D rendering?

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by austin1989us

I'm basically using it like a fancy version of Microsoft Paint right now. I like that it'll give dimensions easily. I could probably do it in AutoCAD, but I'm not particularly familiar with that either.

What's this about heights? Can Visio give me a 3D rendering?

Visio is 2D only. But the drawing can be saved into a .dwg file to be imported into AutoCAD or earlier versions of SketchUp, for a 3D render. Neither of which I've had much luck (or patience) with.

[austin1989us]

Last night we ordered new tail lights and took out a few seats. The tail lights should be in on Friday. Dropped the bus off at the school again. It's the last day of school today. Hopefully the shop kids get around to taking out some more seats for me. I'm hoping they get ambitious and weld the muffler too!

[somewhereinusa]

Some observations about your floor plan in no particular order.

Kitchen seems really small, sink,refrigerator,stove top,microwave?

50 inches for a new entryway? You lost that much wall space when you already have an entry in front of where you show the bookcase. I know it's pretty conventional, but having the passenger seat mounted right at the rear edge of the front stairwell works well. The passenger is only about 10 inches to the rear of the driver, which I don't find uncomfortable for conversation.

19 inches is really small for a walkway.

An RV toilet is roughly 21 inches from the wall and 15 inches wide, do you have enough room for your knees?

That 34 inches in front of the bed looks like wasted space, if the idea is to use it to get to the side of the bed, you can't use the wall space. Wall space is valuable. If you use a RV queen (60x75) you could turn the bed 90 deg. and have room to walk around it. You could still have the water tank under it and not have the raised floor. Use the gained wall space for closet on one side and make the kitchen bigger on the other. You would also have access to that rear door for emergencies.

Where are you going to store clean clothes? Where are you going to store dirty clothes? Where are you going to store food?

Since every inch is valuable, I would suggest you make any wall you construct out of 3/4 inch plywood. It is strong enough to mount anything you might need and you would gain about 1 1/2 inches in space.

Neither my wife or I am very big, things just seem crowded. I have used, and hate a 32 inch shower.

Dick

[austin1989us]

The kitchen area is probably just gonna be a small fridge under a small sink. Perhaps a microwave mounted above the window.

The passenger seat is mounted at the rear edge of the front wheel well. The existing door will remain operational. The "new" entryway is the existing handicapped/wheelchair lift door. I'd like to keep that open/available so I have two points of entry/exit. The bookcase will go in front of the front wheel well (and probably have a new handrail mounted on it).

The toilet shown is 18" x 20" with 12" of floor in front of it. I may want it a little wider just for comfort, but it should work. My knees may push in the shower curtain a bit. I hate the 32" shower too, but any wider and I'll be eating up the already limited aisle space or whatever is across the aisle from the bathroom.

19" is pretty small for a walkway, but the existing one is 12"

I like the idea of an RV queen bed turned sideways. I want access to the rear door, but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'll have to look into that some more.

I was planning on some storage for the dead space between the bathroom and bed. Not sure how that'll look. Maybe some hatch type storage underneath the elevated floor areas with some drawers under the bed. The raised floor idea was a way to deal with the wheel wells. But if I go with the sideways RV bed I can redesign the bathroom to put the cabinets/sink over the wheel well with a toilet in the middle and a 32"X40" shower pan. Then put a closet over the rest of the wheel well on the other side of the bathroom wall.

I still run into a slight wheel well problem. I have to get over the wheel well to walk around the foot of the bed. I could just have a smaller elevated area with a step up to walk around the bed.

But with access to the rear door, I don't need the side chair lift door anymore. I could use that space and forget about getting any utility out of the side door. Or I could think up a cool convertible indoor/outdoor swing-out kitchen.

And now that the kitchen is longer I can make it narrower and make that main walkway wider.



Thanks for the input. It helps to have some other people look at things to help come up with good ideas.