Big 'Bird

[miscrms]

Well, we're taking delivery of bus soon so I figured I'd start a conversion thread

About Us:
We're a family of 5 (3 boys, 11, 9 and 3), with a dog and two cats from Phoenix, AZ. We ended up staying in Phoenix about 10 years longer than we thought we would, and are ready to get out of the heat. I'm an Electrical Engineer, and my better half is a Bio-Chemist turned Midwife. By next summer we hope to be selling our house and setting out for a year on the road.

The Bus:
After a whole lot of reading and hunting we found our dream bus at local dealer. It's a 40' 1997 Blue Bird All American Rear Engine activity bus from a small high school up north. Several things really caught our attention on this one. It's got an up-spec'd 300 HP / 800 Ftlb Cummins 8.3L 12v mechanical engine attached to an Allison MD3060 transmission and 5.38 rear end that will march right up past 75mph if you ask it to. The district that owned it didn't have the budget for new buses until a bond passed last fall, so it seems like they had put a lot of work into keeping their buses in good shape. Lot's of newer parts on the engine including the injection pump, and radiator / hydraulic fan, seems to run really nice. Being an Arizona bus we've not been able to find any significant rust on it anywhere. Even the seat bolts came out clean. The full pass through under storage bins were a big bonus. And as silly as it sounds it's probably the tinted transit windows that put it over the top for us. Planning to leave them all in currently.

The Plan:
We're still working on the details, but our intentions are to focus on building a solid platform for extended off grid camping in a variety of conditions. The interior may end up a bit utilitarian, but hopefully the combination of what should be (knock on wood) a strong reliable bus with all the major systems in place will give us something to start with and we can work on the aesthetics over time ;) Overall we're hoping to find a balanced floorplan that keeps things as open as possible, and maximizes usable space.

Right now we're not planing to remove any of the interior beyond the seats and luggage racks which are being removed as we speak. We generally hope to be avoiding extreme climates, and can always come back and reconsider that decision down the road. Hopefully the full solar over the top along wth extendable shades off the sides and all those openable windows will help keep it from roasting.

I'm planning on a big solar array up top, probably in the 3-4kW range, connected to a large 48V battery built out of a Nissan Leaf lithium battery I have in the garage from another project. Should end up somewhere between 15 and 20kWh of storage capacity. Planning to run a 120/240V inverter/charger in order to be able to run high SEER 240V mini-split heat pumps. Backup heat will either be a propane or diesel furnace, or I'm looking at ways to run the existing hydronic heaters off a propane tankless water heater. Residential fridge around 10cuft, likely an RV combo washer/dryer, and still debating between a propane cooktop or electric induction. In general I'd like to avoid propane inside if possible. We'll likely be towing a Prius on a dolly, which will double as our emergency generator to recharge when the solar isn't cutting it. Also looking at options for charging off the engine so we can run the ACs while driving without running down the batteries.

Hoping for at least 150 gallons of fresh / grey water capacity mounted underneath. Planning a stock tank tub with hand held shower that can be used inside or outside through the side emergency door. Nature's Head composting toilet most likely, so not planning on a black water tank. Haven't really found a better option than propane tankless for the water heater, which is the main thing keeping propane in the equation at all. Looking at a recirculation loop for the hot water to reduce wasted water. Recirculation loop may double as the heat exchanger fresh side if we go the hydronic heating route.

It will be interesting to see how things play out vs. our initial plans

The Pics:

















Rob

[Rusty]

Sweeet Ride ! If this was Pawn Stars, I'd offer tree fiddy for it.

Insulate it. You won't go back and do it later.

Sounds like you've been reading-up. Be flexible, would be my advice.

[cadillackid]

sure sounds like you are planning on some possibly heavy duty weather conditions.. with 2 AC units and an auxilliary furnace..

keep 1 of your engine driven A/C's for the road.. get rid of one .. INSULATE.. if for no other reason than cold metal becomes wet metal when its cool weather and you are cooking / showering, etc.. it will take you a extra week or so in your build to tear down the interior panels, get it foamed and put it back together.. in the grand scheme of things it may make the differece between roasting on the road vs being comfortable.. or wet drippy metal when you get caught in that unexpected cold spell on a mountain somewhere...
-Christopher

[Johnny Mullet]

That is a sweet bus!

[EastCoastCB]

Bus needs this somewhere-

[Tango]

Welcome! Great score. Those windows are way better than the typical, drippy skoolie units and it looks to have a ton of underbelly storage already in place. Should make for a sweet build.

[miscrms]

Still a work in progress, but here's where we're at on the layout so far. Already thinking about swapping the "wet" and "dry" sides so we can use the handheld shower out the side exit door for outdoor showering.





I'm not very good with sketchup, so I've mostly been downloading and modifying existing models that are roughly what we're looking for. The kitchen will likely be Ikea, so it's built from models of those components, but not really laid out to make sense yet. The dinette will likely be built from bus benches and have seat belts to double as riding seats for the kids when driving. I spent way too much time turning an existing Blue Bird FE model into a rear engine, getting it roughly to scale, swapping out the windows, lowering the skirt and sectioning it so you could turn off various walls to see the interior. Maybe it will come in handy when we get to thinking about paint jobs, but was kind a waste of time. Looks kind of cool though



I'll try to post the base model back up to the sketchup warehouse soon in case anyone wants to mess with it. Always just a few more things to clean up....

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by miscrms

Still a work in progress, but here's where we're at on the layout so far. Already thinking about swapping the "wet" and "dry" sides so we can use the handheld shower out the side exit door for outdoor showering.


I'll try to post the base model back up to the sketchup warehouse soon in case anyone wants to mess with it. Always just a few more things to clean up....

Looking good ! The only thing I would consider is RV parks usually have their water/sewer hook-ups on the Driver's side, so you may want to keep that in mind when designing.



That sure looks like a lot of space-

[miscrms]

I hadn’t thought about the hookups being on the drivers side, that’s handy thanks! The rear bed is sized as a king loft, with room for four 75x30 bunks.



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[miscrms]

Picking up the bus tomorrow! Roof ACs removed, luggage racks and inside units are gone as well.





In general trying to cover our bases with multiple strategies around common issues.

- Secured commercial for private use liability insurance through Progressive Commercial. In general was very easy, and not too expensive. $367 for 6 months, paying monthly. This will get us legal at least until we convert the title to motorhome.

- Passed my CDL written exams, now have CDL learners permit. Hopefully will never need to get a CDL, but will have the option.

- RV Storage space rented about 7 miles from home. Plan is to work on it in our driveway generally on weekends, have it parked in storage during the week to avoid the 72 hour code enforcement limit.

We'll have temporary plates on it from the dealer, so our current plan is to try and complete a minimal "temporary conversion" ASAP so we can get it retitled before having to register it commercial. Commercial registration will be the fallback, but it's more expensive.

AZ is one of those complete 4 of 6 items for a conversion type of states. The list of required items is:
1) "A cooking facility with an on-board fuel source"
2) "A gas or electric refrigerator"
3) "A toilet with exterior evacuation"
4) "A heating or air conditioning system with an on-board power or fuel source separate from the vehicle engine"
5) "A potable water supply system that includes at least a sink, a faucet and a water tank with an exterior service supply connection"
6) "A 110-125V electric power supply"

We bought this all in one kitchenette unit off Craigslist for $100, which includes a refrigerator, sink and cook top on a single 115V 15A circuit.



My plan is to put in an RV manual pump faucet, 5 gallon grey water jug under the drain, and a 5 gallon fresh water jug for supply with a hose run to the outside for fill. Also shown are an old pair of Trojan 12V deep cycles and a UPS which will be the "onboard fuel supply" and cover the shore power connection. That should cover items 1, 2, 5, and 6. The biggest risk is whether the inspector buys that these items are "permanently installed and designed to be removed only for purposes of repair or replacement" as per the standard.

We'll find out soon....

Rob

[Twigg]

There are no rules preventing you from "upgrading" your on-board equipment, so you should have no further worries. If anyone whines, simply let them inspect it again with the new fixtures in place.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by miscrms

The biggest risk is whether the inspector buys that these items are "permanently installed and designed to be removed only for purposes of repair or replacement" as per the standard.

We'll find out soon....

Rob

It's easier in Illinois. Slip the guy $20 and he'll title it as a moped, if you want. $100 gets you a CDL w/ hazmat endorsement.

[Mountain Gnome]

The biggest risk is whether the inspector buys that these items are "permanently installed and designed to be removed only for purposes of repair or replacement" as per the standard.

Governments and their stupid rules.....

[TJones]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

Governments and their stupid rules.....

Yes Sir, Mr. inspecter I went through all the trouble of removing all those seats and installing rv components so I can get my rv registration and then... put all the seats back in and kill it on Uber!

[miscrms]

Been busy doing some mechanical clean up (air leak, oil pressure sender / wiring), and tidied up our "minimal" conversion.

Basically trying to see what the minimum is we can get away with for a title conversion in Arizona. So not too surprising that our first attempt was not enough, but hopefully with the guidance we got today we're getting close. I'll write up a separate thread with those findings once we get there.

Summary of today's excitement:

- AZ MVD website makes it seem like Tempe office does level 2/3 inspections. They don't. Spent several hours there, got a level 1 inspection, all went great, they sent me to get smogged, which passed. Came back, they did a bunch of paperwork and finally figured out that I needed a level 2 inspection and have to go to Mesa.

- Drove to Mesa office, finally got to talk to the enforcement officers. It _seems_ like they are going to let the color slide. They said to take off or paint over the school bus signage and remove the pop-out stop sign and I should be good to go. They looked inside but didn't fully inspect, so I won't know for sure until the next visit.

So kind of wasted day, but it was fun to get to drive the bus around for a while. This was my first time driving it on the highway, I'm still really surprised by how this thing gets up and goes. Even on an uphill entrance ramp it just marches right up to 65. Cruises about 1900 rpm at 60, 2200 seems to be high 60s. The governor seems to have been set back to 2600, so top speed is still a ways off.

Rob

[miscrms]

Here’s a few pics of the “conversion.”

$100 kitchenette off CL includes fridge, sink and electric burners. Replaced faucet with manual pump RV style for about $20. Screwed it down through the existing heater line cover screw holes so it stays put.



Routes the drain, faucet tubing and extension cord down through an existing hole between the cabin and storage bin where the old rooftop AC lines used to pass through. In the tub are two Trojan 12v deep cycles and a 1500w UPS I had sitting around. All are strapped down to the brackets in the storage bag that used to hold the drain line from the AC.



Finally made it to the storage yard where we plan to keep it during the week.



Rob


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[miscrms]

Still messing around with the final floorpan, here's the latest:





The extended counter across from the couch would be a fold down table top multi-use space. Shower has moved in front of the exit door so we can have an indoor / outdoor shower option. All water / drains are confined to a fairly small area on one side, which should keep the plumbing fairly simple. The dinettes at the front would be built from bus benches. Two front facing are with belts / integrated child restraints so the kids can be strapped in and do stuff at the table while driving. Rear facing are plain back bus benches. Will probably have a slide out connector between the tables to make it one big table for meals, games, etc. Currently shown with 4 full sized bunks, but the bottoms will probably be part bunk part storage closet/shelving. Bunk for the little guy (3) on one side, dog bed on the other. Bunks for the older boys up top on both sides. Still planning on a loft style King bed in back, Ikea cube storage and play area underneath. So far plan is for all major system components (electrical, HVAC, plumbing, etc) to be worked in underneath the bus. Generally trying to keep the upper area as clear as possible to keep things feeling pretty open until you get back to the bed room area. Will probably have a lot of hanging / magnetic storage along the upper walls to gain utility w/o intruding too much into the space.

[miscrms]

Made some good progress this weekend!

Stop sign removed, pulled the wires back through the body and clipped off right at the crimp connectors. Very happy with how clean the electrical box looks once I figured out how to open it ;) Also removed the power to the warning light module and spray painted over the lenses for now, and removed the School Bus signs with a heat gun and plastic razor blades.







And with that we passed our MVD inspection! Another morning spent at the MVD office in Mesa, but all went smooth this time. Same inspectors, didn't even really bother looking at the "kitchen", just verified that we'd done what they asked, checked all the numbers on the body and chassis, and sent us to registration!



We'll still have to remove them when we do the floor, but we went ahead and bolted down the benches that will be the back of the dinette. Used grade 8 hardware bolted down through the floor, feel very nice and solid.



Took our first family outing in the bus to celebrate!





Now the real work begins ;)

[cadillackid]

in N out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miscrms]

Getting close to a plan on our solar layout. Looking at using some Silevo Triex U300 300W panels that I can get locally for $200 each. These are a little squarer and a little more power dense than a typical panel so it looks like we should be able to get all the way up to the 3600W max of our charge controller and still have gaps for the roof vents to open. They are also higher voltage / lower current than most panels, which is attractive as we can run two separate strings even though we're using a high voltage charge controller. We'll probably split 6 front, 6 back, so that way we'll get better performance if either the front or back of the bus is shaded.





Looking at using unistrut rails much like we did for our home install, with stainless mounting hardware to reduce steel / aluminum contact issues.



Rob