Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-07-2016, 03:04 PM   #91
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 552
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Pre-heat the heat treated steel and it will accept the weld and use the squirt bottle of oil while they are both hot to cool the weld and you are on your way to making your own heat treated weld
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 03:09 PM   #92
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 80
Thanks man!
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 08:02 PM   #93
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 80
Heated the crap out of the frame til it was starting to glow, then welded it. It went much better! You could see the frame getting "eaten" by the puddle as it went along. Did a couple of 4" stretches.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 10:36 AM   #94
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,068
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Some of you metal guys might be able to verify something for me (Googling for two years has yielded nothing verifiable).

I have been "told" by old school rodders and builders that the frames on just about all war-time & pre-war vehicles are very different than their post-war counterparts and need to be handled very differently.

Specifically when it comes to any welding.

According to a number of these folks, the design strategy was very different resulting in metallurgy that was very different. Pre-war design called for very stiff suspension (massive springs, little or no shocks) coupled with a very flexible (non-heat treated) frames. Post war (with the advent of better suspension components) most went to very rigid (heat treated) frames with much softer suspension and real shock absorbers.

The result being that direct welding on war & pre-war frames was far more likely to lead to inconsistent tempering and induce serious fractures than on post war units.

For this reason, to date I have kept welding on my frame to an absolute minimum.

While I can appreciate their combined experience...can anyone here provide anything a bit more scientific than what the rat-rod crowd had to offer in this regard?
Tango is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 11:47 AM   #95
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 80
I heated a couple of sections up with a torch last night and rewelded. You can definitely see the penetration. So either the torch heating the frame is working, or it's not heat treated. Either way, I'm confident with it. I'll check it periodically to make sure it doesn't crack, but it's not like the whole car is bouncing on it. Only the litle bit of weight of the back of the car will be on it. The boards probably weigh more that the weight of the back of the vehicle lol. When I notch the frame for the dovetail I'll make fish plates for it as well as welding the seam.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #96
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,068
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
My "issue of the moment" is the fact that I have to completely replace the center, main crossmember. If I could be confident it would not compromise the frame to the point of breaking in two...welding would be SO much simpler than the multi-piece, bolt together arrangement I am now piecing together.

I also need to replace the original front engine mount brace (crossmember) as it was chopped out to park a 350 Chevy engine that is now long gone.

So, given that this was a simple "ladder" frame...mine has a couple of significant rungs either missing or requiring a replacement. That is why I'm hoping to find out more about the nature of the iron in this particular frame and what it will put up with without snapping or folding up.

The story I was told by the old school builders sounds rational, but some technical data would be nice.
Tango is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 04:19 PM   #97
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 552
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Sorry sir,as a welder I can't offer any advice? My original advice was not to weld period but tippy an had already attempted to weld. I have done a good little bit of welding on heavy construction equipment. Excavater booms,buckets,bulldozers blade extensions with many varying ages but only one bulldozer blade arm from maybe 1945-50 the pins for the blade attachment had wallered the holes out and I added 1" plate doughnuts to tighten the holes up again and I have worked on tractor trailers even though I said not recommended but they upped there pay and said weld it?
I have used the pre-heat method with the oil bath and have even seen and still see some weekly on some of the companies equipment I work for and I know those welds/attachment have been well used and abused. For your situation site unseen I really can't recommend anything and as far as your question about the difference in heat treated steel I can't answer and most of the old timers that I learned everything I know from are retired. So give me a chance to catch up and ask some questions and I will let you know what they say.
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 04:43 PM   #98
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,068
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Thanks. Like I said, according to the old-timers, the steel used on the pre-war frames was a different animal that had to be treated differently but I have not found anything more so far than a few iffy opinions to back it up. I do know that even some of the newer frames are labeled with a tag that says "Do not drill or weld", but as you noted, there are a lot of them that have been greatly modified...so who knows?
Tango is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 06:59 PM   #99
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 80
Got some upgraded pix from the usual doodles: MSPaint!

How I plan to notch the frame:



How I plan to fish-plate it after welding the seam on both sides:



A diagonal brace I plan on using (like the one I did in the rear) to tie the angle together:



Super crappy attempt at a 3D drawing showing an x-brace welded to the diagonal brace shown above:



If all that looks acceptably strong, the next question I have is how much to notch? I would love to make a nice straight cut, lower the frame down until the seam is touching, then weld it up. This is where I need a math whiz lol.

Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 04:25 AM   #100
Skoolie
 
gizmoq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: St Louis Metro
Posts: 104
Year: 1978
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: Lifeguard
Engine: 366 Chevy
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtoZ View Post
If all that looks acceptably strong, the next question I have is how much to notch? I would love to make a nice straight cut, lower the frame down until the seam is touching, then weld it up. This is where I need a math whiz lol.

I used a web-based right angle calculator and included the top of the wheelwell for one end of my hypotenuse... that way the dovetail blended seamlessly into the rest of the ramp. As you can see below, the 3/4" plywood rests flat on the dovetail and a ramp is built under the plywood from the dovetail to the wheelwell.


__________________
The more I do, the more I find needs done.
____________________________________
Build Thread - ET - ELWOOD Transporter
gizmoq is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.