Bus down by the river

[PNW_Steve]

I did something similar on my first bus. My quick disconnect had a rubber cap to keep it clean when not in use.

[inhof009]

After much ado and stressing about it, the hardest part of the raise is done! With the help of musigenesis and some local friends on Saturday, we were able to raise the roof and secure it. The day started out horribly with lots of rain, but the bus roof kept us mostly dry, except when we stepped in puddles outside of the bus. My original thought was that the raise would take 3 hours, and skinning another 3. How naive of me...

We ran into numerous issues with the raise, notably a lot of hidden welds that we struggled to access to cut. After a lot of perseverance and attacking with power tools, we were able to start raising about 3 hours after we started. Much success was had there after and we got it up 12" and secured Saturday, but that took all day and it still wasn't fully secured.

My wife and I had a "school function" at a brewery later that night so we had to call it after 4 supports were in. We came back Sunday and drilled out holes for the bolts 9am-5pm. My arms hurt so much...

Current state of the bus, since we weren't able to skin this past weekend:




Here is a view of how we secured one of the supports; 1/2" grade 8 bolt 2" up and down from the cut. Those bolts will Outlast everything else on the bus.

[dgorila1]

Looks good, coming along well! I like how you cut it along the windshield line. Should make it easier to put in the filler metal.

[inhof009]

Now time for reflection. The original plan was to weld the supports, but we couldn't get a welder in time. So on Friday evening we decided to go for plan b which was bolting it is. We were going to get 3/8" bolts, 4 per support, but the only store we found that had them in stock didn't have enough to do it all. Do we decided to step up one size to the 1/2". Doing 2 per support instead of 4 is still incredibly sturdy. Shear strength of 1/2" is about double that of 3/8, so the math checks out. We had some rain last night, so I haven't been able to climb on top yet to test it that way.

My opinion on bolt vs weld. If we had gotten a welder, the price would have been comparable to the bolts, maybe an extra $100. But it would have been so much faster than drilling the massive 1/2" holes. So I would have preferred to have the supports welded, but that didn't work out.

On 3/8 vs 1/2, I would lean toward 3/8. The holes we drilled we a pain because of how large they were, so even doing twice as many holes would have been much easier with them being smaller.

That being said, I'm still satisfied with the raise that we did. It looks and feels sturdy, and after we have someone come tack weld the bolts so they don't rattle off, I'm confident the roof raise will hold up even in a roll over.

For those of you who talked me out of a 2' raise, thank you. 1' was plenty and 2' would have brought its own unique issues I might not have been able to handle.

[inhof009]

Originally Posted by dgorila1

Looks good, coming along well! I like how you cut it along the windshield line. Should make it easier to put in the filler metal.

That cut along the windshield line is something I'm kind of proud of, but it's also the reason for our 3 hour delay. I had previously cut the rivets off to take advantage of that already existing separation, but if I had cut above that it would have been faster and we wouldn't have run into those stealth welds. It may end up coming back as a benefit when we skin with all of those rivet holes to guide us, but time will tell on that one.

[Mark_In_MA]

I think its really important that you use 2 bolts per post. Think about screwing two pieces of wood together with one screw - you can lever one piece to pivot around the single screw.

(If you remember your geometry, it's the same way that a rectangle and lean over and become a parallelogram.)


[___] becomes /___/


If you put in a second bolt, then you've got a rigid connection that can't possibly pivot.
I don't think it needs to be a 1/2 bolt, something thinner would do, and I'm not even sure that I'd say you had to do every rib - but I'd do at least every other, just to make sure that your roof stays square over the bus. (Worst case, your original roof moves a little bit on its own, and your new skin gets wrinkled and oilcaned.) A quick shot with a welder would do the same thing.

[HazMatt]

I'm wondering why you don't plan on coming back with the welder, for more than just blobbing tacks on the threads...
Roof raises weaken the inherent strength of the design badly enough. To rely on fasteners alone is simply unwise...
This same topic is active on another thread. Please review (not only for your own safety, but anyone accompanying who may be put into harm's way):
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t
Doing it right the first time is ultimately less expensive than taking the easy, expedient course.
Unless one is a sociopath. A particularly miserly sociopath...

[inhof009]

Originally Posted by Mark_In_MA

I think its really important that you use 2 bolts per post. Think about screwing two pieces of wood together with one screw - you can lever one piece to pivot around the single screw.

(If you remember your geometry, it's the same way that a rectangle and lean over and become a parallelogram.)


[___] becomes /___/


If you put in a second bolt, then you've got a rigid connection that can't possibly pivot.
I don't think it needs to be a 1/2 bolt, something thinner would do, and I'm not even sure that I'd say you had to do every rib - but I'd do at least every other, just to make sure that your roof stays square over the bus. (Worst case, your original roof moves a little bit on its own, and your new skin gets wrinkled and oilcaned.) A quick shot with a welder would do the same thing.

I had that same thought as we were going. I'm having a welder come and tack the bolts to the nuts to prevent them from rattling off, so I'll ask if he can do a bit on a few of the supports.

[inhof009]

Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960

I'm wondering why you don't plan on coming back with the welder, for more than just blobbing tacks on the threads...
Roof raises weaken the inherent strength of the design badly enough. To rely on fasteners alone is simply unwise...
This same topic is active on another thread. Please review (not only for your own safety, but anyone accompanying who may be put into harm's way):
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t
Doing it right the first time is ultimately less expensive than taking the easy, expedient course.
Unless one is a sociopath. A particularly miserly sociopath...

Hey, I remember reading that one yesterday!
Yes, I do intent to have a welder secure those bolts in place. I ran them tight, but the only way to ensure they won't rattle off in time is a quick weld.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by inhof009

Hey, I remember reading that one yesterday!
Yes, I do intent to have a welder secure those bolts in place. I ran them tight, but the only way to ensure they won't rattle off in time is a quick weld.

interesting thread - - trailer hitches have to be bolted in place to be legal - they can be welded also, but they have to have bolts as well - I would suggest though that one bolt on either end of the splint would not pass a road safety inspection

[HazMatt]

Prolly not something that a government organ would ever think to check.
The insurance companies, on the other hand, will take any and all excuses NOT to make good on a claim...

[inhof009]

We had a welder come today and fill the nuts, securing then to the bolts. I mentioned the idea of preventing sway (parallelogram style) so he took it upon himself to place some welds on the supports to help prevent that. Overall looks very good!

He also welded a few of my "over eager" cuts to help secure everything better. The roof is now very solid!

Past 2 days, my wife and I had been able to find a few hours to hang some skin. There's a learning curve, but it's not bad. Unfortunately, looks like lots of rain the rest of this week, so we're stuck at this:

That's just the sheets hung at the center. We haven't had a hot enough or sunny enough day to fully secure them yet, but it'll prevent the rain from coming in at least.

I'm expecting some left over metal from this skin, so I'm going to use that to replace my roof exit patch job. The screws I used are leaking, so rivets to the rescue!

[EastCoastCB]

Congrats on the raise!

Nice to see one that's sensible. I cringe when I see folks flexing egos going for 3 foot raises.

Keep the pics coming.

[inhof009]

MOAR pics!

Spent the weekend hanging the skin. Haven't fully secured it yet, mostly because it hasn't been hot enough and partially for reasons that I'll explain later.





Overall the sides and front went very well. Made sure to overlap top over bottom and front over back. In the back, we struggled because we didn't have a nice hood to stand on. We had some issues with dulling bits, but we had extra so no worries!

That being said, I was using the 3/16ths inch air riveter from harbor freight. I've heard that if you keep it oiled, it'll work like a champ. Everything was fine until today, riveting the back, when the gripping mechanism shattered. We had done about 200 on this riveter. We got a replacement, which got stuck after 5 rivets. The next replacement churned nicely, until about 15 rivets in, the back shattered and shot off just past my face. At that point we had done enough and harbor freight was closed, so we called it a night.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with harbor freight 3/16" air riveter, or any ideas what I was doing wrong?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by inhof009

MOAR pics!

Spent the weekend hanging the skin. Haven't fully secured it yet, mostly because it hasn't been hot enough and partially for reasons that I'll explain later.





Overall the sides and front went very well. Made sure to overlap top over bottom and front over back. In the back, we struggled because we didn't have a nice hood to stand on. We had some issues with dulling bits, but we had extra so no worries!

That being said, I was using the 3/16ths inch air riveter from harbor freight. I've heard that if you keep it oiled, it'll work like a champ. Everything was fine until today, riveting the back, when the gripping mechanism shattered. We had done about 200 on this riveter. We got a replacement, which got stuck after 5 rivets. The next replacement churned nicely, until about 15 rivets in, the back shattered and shot off just past my face. At that point we had done enough and harbor freight was closed, so we called it a night.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with harbor freight 3/16" air riveter, or any ideas what I was doing wrong?

Yikes. What was the PSI on your compressor? I have a 1/4" HF riveter and I'm actually about to try using it tonight for the first time. I didn't think the back exploding past my face was a possibility, but it's certainly good to know. I would guess that was because the mandrel was ejected at a higher than normal speed?

[inhof009]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Yikes. What was the PSI on your compressor? I have a 1/4" HF riveter and I'm actually about to try using it tonight for the first time. I didn't think the back exploding past my face was a possibility, but it's certainly good to know. I would guess that was because the mandrel was ejected at a higher than normal speed?

Compressor goes to about 120, but I only had the sender[sic] at 90, which is what it lists as max psi. As for the back shattering, that doesn't have compressed air anywhere, just spring loaded. I found the springs about halfway across the yard as well...

I don't think it was the mandrel shooting off too fast. It comes out after releasing the trigger, which I hadn't yet, and the mandrel is actually presently stuck in the riveter still.

From what I can tell, the 1/4 riveters are much better built than the 3/16, so I'd be very surprised if you have the same issues.

[dgorila1]

Harbor Freight air tools are junk. I went through 4 pneumatic brad nailers, none working, until I finally just had them refund my money. Each time I returned them the sales clerk would toss them into a huge box on a pallet that was almost overflowing with them. This confirmed that they are truly cheap made Chinese tools and you’re lucky to get one that works properly. For anything I need reliability with now I only buy reputable brands. Pay a little more but at least they work.

[inhof009]

Originally Posted by dgorila1

Harbor Freight air tools are junk. I went through 4 pneumatic brad nailers, none working, until I finally just had them refund my money. Each time I returned them the sales clerk would toss them into a huge box on a pallet that was almost overflowing with them. This confirmed that they are truly cheap made Chinese tools and you’re lucky to get one that works properly. For anything I need reliability with now I only buy reputable brands. Pay a little more but at least they work.

Sure looks like it's Chinese junk! I heard from several people on here that the riveter I got was "surprisingly good", but looks like they may have gotten a good one and I broke my only good one.

Any suggestions for a reliable brand? I don't feel right getting my money back after breaking 3 of theirs and it wasn't much to begin with, so I'll likely call it a wash.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by inhof009

Compressor goes to about 120, but I only had the sender[sic] at 90, which is what it lists as max psi. As for the back shattering, that doesn't have compressed air anywhere, just spring loaded. I found the springs about halfway across the yard as well...

I don't think it was the mandrel shooting off too fast. It comes out after releasing the trigger, which I hadn't yet, and the mandrel is actually presently stuck in the riveter still.

From what I can tell, the 1/4 riveters are much better built than the 3/16, so I'd be very surprised if you have the same issues.

Did you put hydraulic oil in yours? I'm looking at my setup instructions - you apparently remove the air cylinder and pour in hydraulic fluid (box says hydraulic oil), but it's not clear on how much.

This is different from the air tool oil that you spray in the air opening once in a while.

[dgorila1]

Originally Posted by inhof009

Sure looks like it's Chinese junk! I heard from several people on here that the riveter I got was "surprisingly good", but looks like they may have gotten a good one and I broke my only good one.

Any suggestions for a reliable brand? I don't feel right getting my money back after breaking 3 of theirs and it wasn't much to begin with, so I'll likely call it a wash.

Unfortunately a quality rivet gun costs a bit of money. We use one regularly at work for stainless steel rivets and it cost around $370 from McMaster Carr. I looked some up at Grainger since they have a store in Norfolk and they have some nice ones for less than $200. Look at the General Duty ones in the link below.
https://www.grainger.com/search?sear...searchBar=true