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Old 12-11-2018, 09:43 AM   #11
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
wow!!! im glad to know the sport is alive here in the states.. I had heard it was all but dead.. this is a great link!!!
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:22 AM   #12
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Location: Winlcok, WA
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It looks like you have found a pretty good bus that will meet your needs really well.

One problem you may encounter is overheating.

A lot of the IHC buses and trucks of that vintage used a combination radiator/charge air cooler. Unlike most charge air coolers that stand in front of the radiator the combination unit put them side by side. Which means the radiator is much smaller than it would have been otherwise. In most situations that a school bus saw service it is adequate. But if you the bus up and tow a trailer as well you are going to be taxing the radiator to the max. The problem will be compounded if you eliminate heaters and the additional coolant 50' of coolant hoses provide.

First off I would double check to see if you have a full radiator with a charge air cooler or a combination unit. If you have a combination unit I would start shopping around for a full radiator and a stand alone charge air cooler. A full radiator will more than likely have double the cooling capacity.

Second, I would double check to see how much transmission cooling you have. With an Allison 2000 series you won't need as much cooling ability as you would need to have if you had an AT540 transmission. But since you are going to be towing it wouldn't hurt to double check you have sufficient cooling ability. Also make sure that part of the cooling loop goes through the radiator before it heads back to the transmission. You can actually over cool ATF if you don't have it going through the radiator. If you are overcooling your ATF, running it through the radiator will help to cool the engine as the ATF absorbs some of the heat in the engine coolant. You really don't want the ATF to be under 100*.

Good luck and have fun!
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:38 AM   #13
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Location: Eustis FLORIDA
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
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If you look the 2003 and 2004 CE300's had a full rad and intercooler setup. May be worth upgrading.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #14
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
now that im bumping my power and torque up im sure that full rad / CAC is something ill want to do.. if nothing else id like to have a bigger CAC for the added boost in the turbo. I need to look at EC;'s 04 when im down next and really take pics of it .. the lower radiator hose is always the hardest part on navistar stuff since a universal hose almost always results in failure.. turbo piping is pretty easy.. that can be adapted to fit most things..



hey Cowlitz: on my recent wisconsin trip my trans temp only reached 130 degrees or so ...it was near 0f parts of the trip.. am I OK or was that too cold for the trans? my engine temp ran right at its T-stat temp of 175-180 (has a 180 Tstat) and of course I had every heater in the bus as high as possible..
-Christopher
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:19 PM   #15
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Unity, NH
Posts: 166
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466E (195hp, 520tq)
Rated Cap: 29,000
Thanks cowlitzcoach and EastCoastCB. I'm friends with the local International dealer/repair shop so I will chat with them about the cooling situation. (They also maintain the school bus fleet in our town.)
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ermracing View Post
Thanks cowlitzcoach and EastCoastCB. I'm friends with the local International dealer/repair shop so I will chat with them about the cooling situation. (They also maintain the school bus fleet in our town.)
I used to have a shorty with a 444 and 545 transmission. It also had the split rad/ic and on hills or highways it would spike up the temp. The bus I have now has a 466E with allison 2000 and a full rad/ic. Runs cool as a cucumber.
I can get you my vin if you need one to search for the parts. Just lmk.
BTW- I've been a VW guy my whole life. I used to drive a 79 Rabbit diesel, then a 92 Jetta, then a series of mid-90's vw's. Still have my old 66 beetle.
Nice to see you using one for your hobby.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:52 PM   #17
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Unity, NH
Posts: 166
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466E (195hp, 520tq)
Rated Cap: 29,000
VWs tend to stick to people... We've been playing with VWs for years as well. Started with diesel Rabbits then went backwards to the air cooled ones (Bugs, Squareback, Bus) and onward up through a Mk5 GTI. This is me back in the early 90's:
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
now that im bumping my power and torque up im sure that full rad / CAC is something ill want to do.. if nothing else id like to have a bigger CAC for the added boost in the turbo. I need to look at EC;'s 04 when im down next and really take pics of it .. the lower radiator hose is always the hardest part on navistar stuff since a universal hose almost always results in failure.. turbo piping is pretty easy.. that can be adapted to fit most things..



hey Cowlitz: on my recent wisconsin trip my trans temp only reached 130 degrees or so ...it was near 0f parts of the trip.. am I OK or was that too cold for the trans? my engine temp ran right at its T-stat temp of 175-180 (has a 180 Tstat) and of course I had every heater in the bus as high as possible..
-Christopher
When it is that cold outside getting anything warm enough is going to be a real challenge.

The important thing for ATF is you need to get it warm enough to cook any water out of the fluid. Every time it warms up, when it cools off there will be some condensation develop. It is especially a problem if you are somewhere the humidity is high. Here on the wet side of the mountains in western WA we can have weeks in the winter where the humidity is 100%. That can cause a LOT of condensation!

If the ATF doesn't ever get some warmth from the engine coolant when it gets cold out the ATF may never get warmed up enough to get the transmission shifting properly.

I would say that if you saw 130* you should be okay.

On my Suburban with auxiliary transmission coolers, when it comes out of the cooler before it goes through the radiator, the ATF temp is down well below 100*. After coming out of the radiator the ATF is back up to about 135*.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:54 AM   #19
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 10,895
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
When it is that cold outside getting anything warm enough is going to be a real challenge.

The important thing for ATF is you need to get it warm enough to cook any water out of the fluid. Every time it warms up, when it cools off there will be some condensation develop. It is especially a problem if you are somewhere the humidity is high. Here on the wet side of the mountains in western WA we can have weeks in the winter where the humidity is 100%. That can cause a LOT of condensation!

If the ATF doesn't ever get some warmth from the engine coolant when it gets cold out the ATF may never get warmed up enough to get the transmission shifting properly.

I would say that if you saw 130* you should be okay.

On my Suburban with auxiliary transmission coolers, when it comes out of the cooler before it goes through the radiator, the ATF temp is down well below 100*. After coming out of the radiator the ATF is back up to about 135*.



good call on the condensation. i hadnt thought of that.. i use a synthetic fluid (TranSynd) which is designed to have a constant viscosity.. biut im sure it is still susceptible to moisture.. esp in ohio where it seems to rain and snow alot.. whan its above freezing ill easily see 155-160 on the trans.. itsj ust when its really cold out and im running down the highway converter locked that it is lower..



maybe I should change the computer program to run the converter unlocked until i reach an acceptable warmup temp like 140 or so?


-Christopher
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
good call on the condensation. i hadnt thought of that.. i use a synthetic fluid (TranSynd) which is designed to have a constant viscosity.. biut im sure it is still susceptible to moisture.. esp in ohio where it seems to rain and snow alot.. whan its above freezing ill easily see 155-160 on the trans.. itsj ust when its really cold out and im running down the highway converter locked that it is lower..



maybe I should change the computer program to run the converter unlocked until i reach an acceptable warmup temp like 140 or so?


-Christopher
I don't think slushing along with the convertor unlocked is the best idea although it might be the easiest way to warm the ATF up.

I have seen and heard a lot of different ways to keep the ATF from running too cool. I think the easiest and best way is to route the cooling lines through the radiator or through another cooler that is cooled by engine coolant.
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