Delurking to introduce ... "Resurrection Fern" - Page 2

fernmistress · 08-04-2009, 09:31 PM

TygerCub: Thanks for the suggestion. Check!

Smitty: I actually asked the hubby this same question. Here's the basic explanation.

We are leaving the bare metal floor for the head (hubby wanted to let me know that, while I can call it a "toilet closet", it is actually called a "head" on a boat and we are doing it much like they do on a boat) and shower areas because we really aren't going to do the full plumbing for either right now. Instead, we will come back and do that once we are closer to being ready to take it on the road. He says it will be better to just put down the small section inside these areas with just a screw or two and leave them accessible for future construction than to lay it down permanently and work around it.

Just to let you know the plan: we are doing a composting toilet. Jim has come up with an excellent idea to have a fully operation composting system without spending a fortune on a pre-manufactured one. Problem is, this will take some time and thought and planning to pull off. In the meantime, we want to progress on the rest of the bus. So we've decided to go with a basic compost system (ummmm. a bucket and sawdust.) until we can build the entire system.

As for the shower, we aren't sure exactly how we want to build the inside. Fiberglass? Insert? But the size and location are pretty solid, so we are going to go ahead and frame it out and put the two walls in while we decide. And again, the floor needs to be accessible for easy plumbing once we make up our mind.

The rest of the bus will get a layer of insulated foam board and plywood as soon as we get the head and shower framed in. Then we'll work on the bunks for the kids, a bunk for us in the back, and build up the kitchen/living space. So all of that WILL be built on a plywood floor. Once everything is in place, we'll lay down the bamboo flooring in all the visible places.

Our main goal is to get the bus ready to take out for long weekend trips in October, a month long trip in February, and hopefully be able to take off next Summer. And even then, we honestly don't expect the bus to be "done". We really are going to live in it and lay everything out to where it suits us best. So basically we will build it as we go. But first we really do need the basics: a head, a shower, and some sleeping quarters. (And a floor, of course.) The rest will come naturally once we are spending some time in it.

Does it make sense? Or are we crazy?

Well, maybe you shouldn't really answer that second one.

ezbme · 08-04-2009, 09:37 PM

I agree with tigercub that it would be much easier to lay the sub floor first at least...

I am interested in your composting toilet ideas. We are also going to build one but it will be in our cabin but haven't decided on how we want to do it (besides a seat on a 5 gallon bucket & like you said, sawdust... What did you guys have in mind?

fernmistress · 08-05-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezbme

I am interested in your composting toilet ideas. We are also going to build one but it will be in our cabin but haven't decided on how we want to do it (besides a seat on a 5 gallon bucket & like you said, sawdust... What did you guys have in mind?

A while back, we watched this video (

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y52Lm...e=channel_page

) about long term enclosed composting toilets. Ever since, we have been trying to come up with a way to do something similar on a bus. Of course, the thinking has to be changed a little when considering the implementation on a smaller scale. But the principles and the idea are still the same.

We do intend to install a pee diverter and keep it separate from the rest. We will install a larger tank (~150 gallons) under the bus to collect the rest of the waste, just like you would a blackwater tank. The quicker the material dries out, the less room it takes up. So he figured out a way to install a passive solar heating system that will be mounted on the roof of the bus with a simple small fan to aid in the process of heating up/drying out the waste material. Inside the tank there will be an auger attached to either a crank or motor that will turn the material every few days and also push it to the back of the tank, compressing it to take up less space. The idea is that we should be able to go a year, or possibly longer, without emptying the tank. In that amount of time it will be fine compost for someone to use so it shouldn't be hard to find a place to dump it.

That's pretty much the general idea. I'm not sure how much of the specifics that could be explained in more detail. I may just have to get Jim, himself, to stop in and offer up more info if he has it.

I'm pretty stoked about getting the composting toilet idea to work. This will be a major "plus" for the bus, I think. Now if we can just make it work in real life the way we see it working in our heads.

TygerCub · 08-05-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernmistress

We will install a larger tank (~150 gallons) under the bus to collect the rest of the waste

150 gallons? Really?

How in the world are you going to fit something that large under the bus? Even a 55 gallon drum is a tight fit as it hangs down a little below the level of the side panel. Are you special ordering it? If so, from where?

I'd like to put a 100 gallon fresh water tank somewhere on the bus, but when I went looking, 50gallon was the largest RV type tank I could find, and the 100gallon tank (from NorthernTool) was too bulky to consider. Unless, of course, I put it up top, or on a back porch. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how safe I'd feel with that much weight (1gal water = 8.35lb) sloshing around on the roof in addition to a roof deck and various buckets of my "stuff". And I want the deck for the motorcycle, so... bummer.

The alternate plan is to keep the center of gravity low by hanging two 50 gallon tanks on each side of the bus, evenly distributing the weight - and consequently allowing me to put the shower on one side, and the kitchen sink on the other. Haven't figured out where to put the greywater tank yet. But that one will be relatively small since I hope to use grey water for feeding house plants and washing the bus.

Please do keep us updated on your composting toilet design! Even the bucket & sawdust method. It's a touchy subject for some, but good information for those trying to stay away from blackwater troubles.

fernmistress · 08-05-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TygerCub

150 gallons? Really?

How in the world are you going to fit something that large under the bus? Even a 55 gallon drum is a tight fit as it hangs down a little below the level of the side panel. Are you special ordering it? If so, from where?

Hmmm. Maybe I am mistaken about the size. Could be he said 100 gallon instead of 150. I'll have to ask to confirm. I know he's talked about building a custom tank, since - like you said - the larger tanks are bulky and not really easy to put under a bus. Like I said, this is mostly in the "idea" phase right now. It could be that many adjustments to said "idea" will have to be modified before it's actually fully implemented and working correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TygerCub

I'd like to put a 100 gallon fresh water tank somewhere on the bus, but when I went looking, 50gallon was the largest RV type tank I could find, and the 100gallon tank (from NorthernTool) was too bulky to consider. Unless, of course, I put it up top, or on a back porch. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how safe I'd feel with that much weight (1gal water = 8.35lb) sloshing around on the roof in addition to a roof deck and various buckets of my "stuff". And I want the deck for the motorcycle, so... bummer.

The alternate plan is to keep the center of gravity low by hanging two 50 gallon tanks on each side of the bus, evenly distributing the weight - and consequently allowing me to put the shower on one side, and the kitchen sink on the other. Haven't figured out where to put the greywater tank yet. But that one will be relatively small since I hope to use grey water for feeding house plants and washing the bus.

We are thinking of putting the fresh water tank in the very back, probably along the wall behind or underneath our bedframe (depending mostly on how we lay out the back bunk area). Have you considered the possibility of something similar?

And by doing something like that, you could mount two greywater tanks on either side to even out the distribution of weight underneath. An idea, maybe? I'm thinking it may work for us, as well, because we'll have the shower on one side and the sink on the other. Hmmmm. Thanks for the thought.

I like the idea of using the grey water for washing the bus. And feeding house plants. I'm still trying to figure out how to put some plants on the bus. I'd LOVE to have a rooftop garden of some sort, but I'm not really sure that will work. Then again, who knows? Anything is possible in the Skoolie world, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TygerCub

Please do keep us updated on your composting toilet design! Even the bucket & sawdust method. It's a touchy subject for some, but good information for those trying to stay away from blackwater troubles.

Oh, I'm sure you guys will get tired of hearing about compost toilets before it's all said and done. This is one part of the conversion that I am bound and determined to make work. I'm convinced there HAS to be a way to do it, even though I can't find anything even close to what we want to do. Hey, someone has to do it first!

I know I've read a couple of things elsewhere on the forums about others wanting to incorporate the same kind of system. Maybe we can eventually get enough interest and start our own little forum thread about composting toilets and throw around ideas back and forth.

Papabear · 08-05-2009, 09:50 AM

Hi ya'll I got a 110 gal. water tank from Ebay. the shipper was out of Canada. The tank was $140.00 and another $105 to ship it. The tank is just over 7' long and apprx. 12"X14" It will go under the bed frame across the back.
That leaves me a 50 gal. blackwater tank on the pass. side and a 50 gal. greywater on the drvr. side (mounted underneath) Actually thinking of a pee diverter to run to the graywater tank. No compost toilet, but pee water would be "watered" down conciderably by sink and shower water and tank be emptied out in a lot more places than the blackwater tank. So, the only thing going into black tank would be poop and minimal water to flush it. Call me crazy - You would'nt be the first.

fernmistress · 08-05-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papabear

No compost toilet, but pee water would be "watered" down conciderably by sink and shower water and tank be emptied out in a lot more places than the blackwater tank. So, the only thing going into black tank would be poop and minimal water to flush it. Call me crazy - You would'nt be the first.

That's not crazy. I think it's pretty smart, myself.

NewSkewlHauler · 08-05-2009, 04:44 PM

A pee diverter? Would you have room for some kind of urinal setup? I'm guessing that a pee diverter for sitting would be somewhat "interesting" for fabricate and possibly use. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about either. But a men's room-type urinal wouldn't be too complicated.

Ben.

Duckf00t · 08-05-2009, 04:55 PM

Pee diverter? Us truckers call it a gatorade bottle-

dbluez · 08-05-2009, 05:34 PM

This is Jim.
Yes, the size of the designed tank is 100 gals. or a little less, to be built from marine plywood (or other suitable weather resistant wood) and lined inside with fiberglass. Sized to exactly fit the area on the passenger side between wheel well and bumper, and held in place by a steel frame. The uncommon use of the tank is forcing the home built aspect, although that tank Papabear got sounds really interesting, just the right size.

NewSkewlHauler: Yeah, a pee diverter is kinda different, but human anatomy is kinda universal in the respect that in a sitting position, pee comes out the front and poo comes out the back. Most composting toilets are set up with two chambers below the seat, a smaller one forward, and the other more to the rear. And it doesn't have to work to perfectly keep the pee completely diverted. A little in the wrong chamber won't hurt. Just as long as the other way around works good, and no "non pee" goes it the wrong area. So young ones that just barely fit the seat may have to find other accommodations. A urinal would be good, but I doubt there will be room. So there will be lot's of well watered trees, for those with too much macho to just sit down.

And as to the floor, I have tried to cut sheet metal under plywood before, and it is deadly to hole saws because of the heat, etc. so the floors in the head and shower will be removable and precut to fit. I have no problem making a few extra cuts during fabrication, to save lot's of headaches later. Jigsaws and sawzalls could make the holes, too, but also are a {insert your favorite word} to control cutting plywood and steel at the same time, plus melting the insulation.

TygerCub · 08-05-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbluez

This is Jim.
Yes, the size of the designed tank is 100 gals. or a little less, to be built from marine plywood (or other suitable weather resistant wood) and lined inside with fiberglass.

Ooo

That sounds GREAT! :P Please DO take LOTS of photos of that process! I'd love to see how the final product comes out.

Something I've always wondered about water tanks... would a cylindrical or elliptical tank keep water from sloshing as much as a square tank? Just observing the dynamics of water in a fish tank versus a round soda bottle, I would suspect the lack of extreme changes in depth would make the water travel better in a curved-bottom container. Anyone noticed a difference?

Thanks for the clarification, Jim. Nice to hear from you!

fernmistress · 08-06-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckf00t

Pee diverter? Us truckers call it a gatorade bottle-

Now, that is funny. And believe me when I say that if I could somehow master the art of peeing in a gatorade bottle (and then making sure our daughter does the same), then we would go for it.

Papabear · 08-06-2009, 09:14 AM

Check this link out. Looks like a do-able, low cost solution for a composter.

I've seen a lot of that "trucker's lemonade" along side the highway. Hope some hot and thirsty hitchhiker dos'nt think is a free drink someone dropped.

As for Squatting to pee, well, I'll never admit to it. The are always things outside when you park. Ya, got to mark your territory. Cops kind of frown on it when your parked at Walmart though.

http://www.ecovita.net/privy.html

Duckf00t · 08-06-2009, 09:21 AM

I hate seeing trucker bombs- I always hang on to mine, empty in a storm drain. Throw the plastic in the trash, I've seen guys fill one and drop it right outside the window- not 15' from a trash can. Slobs

Some people are just pigs *shrug*

RazorCityDen · 08-06-2009, 09:49 AM

We haven't bought it yet, but were using an "Airhead" composting yacht toilet and only running a grey water tank. A little pricey on the short end but will eliminate black water tank, plumbing and dumping drama, reduce fresh water consumption and plumbing and the engineering already done.

Take Care,
Den

Papabear · 08-06-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RazorCityDen

We haven't bought it yet, but were using an "Airhead" composting yacht toilet and only running a grey water tank. A little pricey on the short end but will eliminate black water tank, plumbing and dumping drama, reduce fresh water consumption and plumbing and the engineering already done.

Take Care,
Den

Hey Den, thanks for the airhead hookup. It is a little pricey, but should last forever and solves a lot of headaches. Sometimes its the time vs. money thing, ya know. Right now a little money and no time.

Duckf00t · 08-06-2009, 08:37 PM

Got a less expensive model for ya

hmcastle55 · 08-07-2009, 06:26 AM

Ha ha! Too funny. I'm looking at composting toilets too. The thetford looks really good, and there's another one i'm lookin' at..name's escaped me at the moment (made by a company in Canada). dang..i can't remember. Anyway, the whole point of that is to eliminate the black tank. Someone posted not to actually get rid of my black tank, just connect it to the grey tank for more grey water storage, which i thought was a good idea. Composters I think (i hope) are the way to go...

fernmistress · 08-07-2009, 06:54 AM

I love that there is so much interest and varying opinions/ideas for the composting toilet. I think I'm going to start a thread just for this topic in the "Conversion Discussion" forum so it will be easily found by others who are interested in doing it. I think it will be great to have one spot where everyone throws out ideas and thoughts on the topic and I hope you'll all join in and continue to brainstorm. Who knows? By the time we get around to actually putting ours in, the plan may be completely different.

RazorCityDen · 08-07-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanguy67

Ya still gotta dump liquids according to their website (I did EXTENSIVE research before buying my Thetford). Might not have to dump solids as often, but for $969 I STILL gotta dump pee? If you're standing over a house toilet or pit toilet pouring out your own waste, does it really matter if it's less solid???

Papabear, save $850 and buy yourself a Thetford 365 toilet. 5.1 gallon waste tank, 4 gallon fresh water tank. You have to dump it but $850 buys a LOT of beer!

If you wanna dump money (HA!! Couldn't help it!

) why not get one of these?

http://ssl3.adhost.com/incinolet/mer...?step=4&pid=55

Comes in different colors, is specifically made for RV's. A "handy" person could rig something (maybe use the waste air when your air brake system "pops off" to blow the ash away??) to eliminate dumping the ash?

It doesn't require electricity every time you "go". It just needs to be hooked up to power every 40-50 "flushes".

Burn Baby Burn!!

I'm still shopping myself and cost is why I haven't bought an Airhead yet, that and I'm still researching composters in general, but one reason not to buy it isn't dumping pee, you can route liquids to your grey water tank. The Air head was simply designed to be completely self contained so it could be mounted anywhere or packed up and taken with.

From what I understand of the subject, separating liquids from solids is what makes or breaks the whole compact composter deal. Small composters drown out if the liquids and solids aren't separated. I know this to be true, a friend of mine has been trying to come up with a homemade unit for awhile and actually does have a pretty good working unit, but it's bigger than I want and has to be tended more than I care too. I have been around when his composter wasn't working good and it' not a pretty sight

I don't want to turn the morning constitution into an interesting new hobby

One thing I'm pretty settled on is that the Airhead does work as advertised (real testimony of folks that own them), but you got to drop the coin. I'm holding out till the end to drop that coin in case something else comes to my attention, not a big deal anyway since the Airhead simply surface mounts, vents and your done.

If someone knows of other proven compact composters, I'm all ears!

Take Care,
Den

You may also like: