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Old 07-11-2019, 04:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Got half way through and quite reading after all the bad advice. You are describing the sign in my shop. "We offer the following A-Quick Service
B-Quality Work
C-Cheap Prices
You can have 2 of the above.

Your job will be quicker because you are forfitting some of the most important steps to building a livable Skoolie. I see you're set in your plan so I won't even explain how wrong you are.
What is your ETA for completion.
Your recommendations to noobs will surely heighten their stress level up the road. I'll take crap for it, but this is a good example how not to build a Skoolie that is livable.
Seconded. His website seems to be basically an ad for his handyman services - and his skoolie advice seems to be basically justifications for all of the shortcuts someone has to take (e.g. not removing the ceiling, not using sprayfoam) to build skoolies for others profitably.

Also, THE USE OF ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE A PERSON'S ARGUMENTS ANY MORE EFFECTIVE.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
Brad you are the voice of reason on this site. Not that I need help in defending my advice but I hope others follow your comments as true and trustworthy.

Notice NO one accepts my challenge of proving the cost savings they make up as they go. You can't save half the cost of a heating bill by doubling your R-factor! It doesn't work that way. But yet, that seems to be the regurgitated theme when it comes to insulating. How many buses are on YouTube with the damn spray foam "still" not covered! It's a pain in the *** to deal with but hey, each to their own.

I want people to enjoy their builds ASAP! Some of these couples teeter on divorce going through the tough tasks of tearing out perfectly good metal roofs only to spend weeks and hundreds of dollars to say they "did it right". Here is a important fact.......MOLD DOES NOT GO THROUGH METAL! Uneducated people believe this but that doesn't make it true! Also, RUST DOES NOT SPREAD! IT's IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT WATER! Read about it! If you eliminate moisture, you eliminate rust! Grinding out rust is a waste of time and effort. Eliminate the moisture and leave the rust alone. Just do the homework and you'll see that I'm right. Cover the darn stuff and move on.

My buses roof will have a R-Factor of over 25 before I'm done. An insulating "CAP" will cover the exterior of it and a wooden deck will block ALL sunlight. Insulation can go inside or outside, makes no difference. My future pictures and videos will explain and hopefully some people will head the advice.

Some pretty sensitive people on here huh?
You probably have something ready to go for this, but you've heard of thermal conductivity? R-factor is not the only thing to consider in insulation.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Seconded. His website seems to be basically an ad for his handyman services - and his skoolie advice seems to be basically justifications for all of the shortcuts someone has to take (e.g. not removing the ceiling, not using sprayfoam) to build skoolies for others profitably.

Also, THE USE OF ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE A PERSON'S ARGUMENTS ANY MORE EFFECTIVE.
Dang, man you're like... really good with words and stuff man.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:24 PM   #34
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Duh? My website is an ad for my business....but for a 50 mile radius. That's what websites are for, to build business. Do you think I'm trying to do handyman business across the USA? Too funny. Seriously? You think that's my motive?

Again so far no one can prove my claims wrong. This is a good thing for new builders and by far more will be helped than hurt. Facts are a stubborn thing.

Insulation is the most argued aspect of bus conversions. It's also the most misunderstood. Everyone comments on it but no one substantiates their claim. The windows are the true culprits here. The cold air cascades down the walls and onto the floor negating the floors insulation. Look how many YouTube videos show people with "rugs" on their floors. It's just the way things are. Relax and enjoy it. A rug is a cheap investment.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:54 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
Facts are a stubborn thing.

Insulation is the most argued aspect of bus conversions. It's also the most misunderstood. (1)Everyone comments on it but no one substantiates their claim. (2)The windows are the true culprits here. (3)The cold air cascades down the walls and onto the floor negating the floors insulation. (4)Look how many YouTube videos show people with "rugs" on their floors. It's just the way things are. Relax and enjoy it. A rug is a cheap investment.
(1) I guess he didn't read my post on page 3......

(2) Single pane, I'll agree with part of that, but it's more than just windows. (see post on page 3...)

(3) What in the world is this guy talking about? A water fall? A/C is more thermodynamic than this. How do you "negate" insulation? You can break the laws of man all day long, but try as anyone may, no one can break the laws of physics. The only way someone can "negate" insulation is to destroy or remove it. This statement makes absolutely no sense.

(4) I have seen maybe two or three of the multitudes of buses with carpeted floors. I made the colossal error of doing that in my first build to see if it works, NOT!!! Rugs are not indicative of a lack of insulation. Rugs are put on floors to help cope with dust and cleaning issues (helps prevent scratches - extends floor life). Rugs lack any kind of effective insulation.

Well, if people don't read previous posts and make intelligent responses, I'm done with this thread. Gave my two cents worth of real world results and common sense then was ignored.

I figure you can lead a horse to water, can't make 'em drink....

Yep, facts are a stubborn thing alright. It's the sources relied upon that's the question. I tend to trust real world experiences above all else.

M
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:35 PM   #36
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M,

I read your post on page 3 but it made no sense then either so I didn't comment. And to comment on this post now seems unfair to you because you don't no the definition of "Negate" and it's use in my example. I won't bother to explain it again.....as you said, you can lead a horse to water, blah, blah, blah.

Give us a break. And somehow your offended by my not replying and you are going to take your ball and glove and go home? Ok.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:15 PM   #37
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This thread has gone from someone offering their buildout advise, into what has seemingly turned into a pi$$ing contest which is a real shame.

Naturally we're not all going to have 100% agreement on how a quality bus should be converted. or how much insulation is needed vs what will simply work most of the time depending on the vehicle's intended usage.

Having different ideas or choices in the buildout process is helpful to contemplate and should be embraced by those open minded folks that are serious about wanting suggestions to follow, or not, in getting their individual projects across the finish line!

There will likely be very few busses still running the roads 20 years from now, that are on the road today no matter how over or under built they are...
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:51 PM   #38
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
This thread has gone from someone offering their buildout advise, into what has seemingly turned into a pi$$ing contest which is a real shame.

Naturally we're not all going to have 100% agreement on how a quality bus should be converted. or how much insulation is needed vs what will simply work most of the time depending on the vehicle's intended usage.

Having different ideas or choices in the buildout process is helpful to contemplate and should be embraced by those open minded folks that are serious about wanting suggestions to follow, or not, in getting their individual projects across the finish line!

There will likely be very few busses still running the roads 20 years from now, that are on the road today no matter how over or under built they are...

I agree - the OP has some ideas that will work fine for some, maybe not so fine for some others - I long ago decided that I wanted closed cell foam insulation, but it's going on top of the roof - the steel roof will work fine as a vapor barrier, and it's a simple matter to build a water proof cap/deck on top - that in itself will save time and $'s and will perform as well or better than alternatives ( and has the added, but likely uneeded, advantage of enhancing the skoolie's safety in a roll over rather than detract from ceiling strength like the removal of the metal ceiling does ) - the OP's post about getting furniture and cabinets from returns or auctions would be an excellent one for my purpose, just wish it was a more practical solution for me because I live in an area of low population and auctions/warehouses tend to stick to the high population areas - I see no cause for rudeness when someone has an idea different than our own - this forum, as far as I understood is for the exchange of ideas, not for insults and sour posts because someone disagrees - for Pete's sake, it's not our manhood being challenged - lol
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:41 AM   #40
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There are many different ways to build a skoolie - tons of people on here for different reasons, with different goals, skill levels, and budgets. There's no one way to do things. Like a lot of things though, I'm immedeately suspicious when someone comes in to say do this, that, and the other thing - exactly the opposite of what a lot of the general community does - without being able to explain why. There are a lot of opinionated people here - but I think most people and and keep the "preachyness" to their own threads - what I mean is that people say "On my bus I'm doing __________" , instead of trying to say that "EVERYONE should do ________."

"Fastest". . oakay, "cheapest", oaky, "Best quality bus build". . uhh, hang on a sec...
It's fine to do a budget bus build. There might be a literal build called that here somewhere. But if you call it "Fastest, cheapest, best", then you can't complain if people call you out on it.

Not everyone's bus needs to be a mobile hotel on wheels - some people are fine with a metal tent on wheels. It's not that the OP's advice is false, but I feel like there are a lot of things that could get people in trouble.

For example, forget about insulation for a moment - think about "temperature management" instead. It's totally faster and easier if, like the OP suggests, you just put up some 2x4 walls on 24 inch centers, and put some foam between the studs. If you do that though, you're closing off all your windows. . . and forget what you have for insulation, if you don't get some fresh air your bus somewhere, you've just built yourself an oven. Rugs work in the cold, they don't help as much in the hot. Do you need to rip apart all the walls and the ceiling? No. Will you be in trouble if you don't check for leaks (either on a rainy day or with a hose first)? YES. How many of you have leaking emergency hatches?

Another reason to remove the interior walls and ceiling is to make room for your plumbing and wiring before you put up your walls. Some of those things you really want to run first. Raise your hand if you floor plan has changed at some point in the build - that will effect your utilities as well. Go ahead and frame - just do the leg work to get somewhat of an idea of your floor plan first.

I think the OP missed a bit of a point about tons of people on Youtube who are asking $25,000 for their build and can't find a buyer - the problem isn't exactly that people did a poor looking job on the conversion, or that there are no buyers - but that they cut certain corners - like spending the extra thousand or two to put in some insulation in the first place - which turns away knowledgeable buyers.

It also ignores the fact that you're still starting a conversion based on a large, used, commercial-spec vehicle. Not that you have to be an expert mechanic, but you're going to learn about certain things sooner or later - like fuel filters, air tank drain valves, etc. What's worse then finding out you have roof leak (and ruined $100 of tongue and groove roofing) is finding out your bus just toasted a piston and needs $1200 of engine work.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that there are things you can do to make building a skoolie easyER - but it's still not easy. There are certain things you need to be prepared to buy/spend/do, or maybe a skoolie isn't the right type of camper for you.
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