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Old 07-21-2019, 01:11 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
Not sure why you have such internal anger but probably just out of your comfort zone, not knowing how to build a skoolie let alone understand the world of liability insurance. Either way, I'm here to help you.

So the "center of gravity" mis-statement.....you have a 30,000 lb bus with 25,000 lb of it's weight below the bottom 3 feet of it's structure. I'll let you do the rest of the math but surly you will get the point.

With custom vehicles (skoolies) you have custom policies. These addendum are called "clauses", ie: bus will not be insured for accidental injuries unrelated to driving (like falling off of a deck). You should ask for these. You can get a liability policy that relates only to the legal operation and use of the bus on the road. Cheapest policy to write and a flat non-wind catching light weight deck has no bearing on operation of the bus or braking and turning. Just flat out won't be an issue. Jeez!

By "Fastest build" I'm referring the the actual time "when working on it", duh? My point is that anyone wanting to get done fast, this is how it's done.

End of story. Move on to something productive.



"Not sure why you have such internal anger but probably just out of your comfort zone, not knowing how to build a skoolie let alone understand the world of liability insurance. Either way, I'm here to help you." You have no idea of my skills or comfort zone. Help me? Please reread my posts to you. I wouldn't trust you to tie me shoelaces.


"So the "center of gravity" mis-statement.....you have a 30,000 lb bus with 25,000 lb of it's weight below the bottom 3 feet of it's structure. I'll let you do the rest of the math but surly you will get the point." My 30,000 lb GVW bus weighs 16,000 lbs empty and not all of that is "below the bottom 3 feet of it's structure" I'm thinking I overestimated your capability to build anything. You sound like you think that it is impossible for a bus to turn over


search youtube for"wind truck roll over" ...oh, I forgot, you can't be bothered to look yourself, you need someone to do it for you. Here is a couple of links to get you started. Sorry all the bus rollovers that I saw were filmed after the fact. These are still interesting. The most interesting thing to me, was that the cars were pretty much unaffected by the wind.



https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ruck+roll+over



2 compilations:

I like the one @ 40 sec.. that's some pretty good driving








As far as the insurance goes I see that you think that no longer have to misinform/trick the insurance but can just get them to do whatever you want. Please tell us all how you did it, after you do it, right now it just sounds like more bs. Not saying it is impossible...just...



"By "Fastest build" I'm referring the the actual time "when working on it", duh? My point is that anyone wanting to get done fast, this is how it's done.".....OK


"End of story. Move on to something productive.".... At last, something sensible.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:20 AM   #102
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A long post only to conclude that you were comparing apples and oranges. A full size bus has a much lower center of gravity than a semi. The only example that is in the videos of a bus resulted in that vehicle being relocated to a field. Most of those semi's were empty and the trailers act like sailboats in high wind. I drove trucks in the western states for 45 years, have encountered extreme winds in Wyoming countless times, and always had the brain power to know when to park if my load was too light. I will not be hesitant to operate my bus in high wind situations, but will also use common sense to park it when I need to. You will probably not find bus "blow overs" involving school buses, as the center of gravity is much lower, weight is a factor, and the operators Have the common sense to not expose their vehicles to those conditions. End of rant.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:34 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
So here's the deal. You want your bus now, and you want to enjoy all the cool things about it as quick as possible, meaning build it in a few weeks or months instead of a year or two (which by then your neighbors are wanting to set it on fire). So here's the fast track method. Buy a reasonably good bus not rusted clear through and fraught with mechanical issues, engine, transmission, etc. Remove the seats using a cutoff wheel and angle grinder (this is still the best method I've seen to date). Should take you a day's work if your persistent. Won't be fun but it's the hardest part of the build.

DON'T pull up your floor or tare down your perfectly good metal ceiling! The bus is insulated to factory specs and replacing it won't gain you but 4 or 5 points R-Value wise. People brag about foams and bat insulation all day long but no-one can or will show you significantly reduced utility bills given the loss through there windows. Lay your sub-floor over the rubber membrane that acts as a moisture barrier already and then lay "true tongue and groove" laminate flooring, "NOT Click Lock". Click lock takes twice as long and you'll be done in one day! Staple every 3 rows and you'll be good.
If we had assumed our floor to be in good shape based on the condition of the rest of the bus, and not torn it up, it would have been a huge mistake. Our bus was essentially rust-free... nearly pristine undercarriage, original paint still intact under the wheel-wells and in engine compartment.... perfect. Until we removed the plywood floor. Luckily, we're going to be able to arrest the rust before it compromises the integrity of the floor panels - still plenty of meat left - but I doubt I'd be able to say the same a few years down the road if we had just left it alone. Plus - the plywood was rotted, moldy, and nasty. And the complete lack of insulation was far from ideal.

Our rubber flooring didn't act as a moisture barrier. It acted as a moisture containment system. It was far from impervious to water seeping in, but it did a great job of preventing it from gassing out. Plus it smelled. And was filthy. And looked like ass.

The ceiling insulation - a joke. And ours was in comparatively great shape. I take the word of the countless individuals here who have seen dramatic increases in insulation value - both temperature and sound - with foam & other options vs the stock fiberglass batting. That, and my own intuition, which tells me that leaving an interior metal roof intact with a direct conductive path to the external metal roof is a great way to create a solar oven, but not necessarily the best way to create a comfortable living space.

As far as the seats, ours came out with a ratchet, sockets, and box-ends. And even though we're still in the beginning stages, I can already say they were not the hardest part of our job thus far. Not even close. That honor goes to the floor.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:37 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
"Not sure why you have such internal anger but probably just out of your comfort zone, not knowing how to build a skoolie let alone understand the world of liability insurance. Either way, I'm here to help you." You have no idea of my skills or comfort zone. Help me? Please reread my posts to you. I wouldn't trust you to tie me shoelaces.


"So the "center of gravity" mis-statement.....you have a 30,000 lb bus with 25,000 lb of it's weight below the bottom 3 feet of it's structure. I'll let you do the rest of the math but surly you will get the point." My 30,000 lb GVW bus weighs 16,000 lbs empty and not all of that is "below the bottom 3 feet of it's structure" I'm thinking I overestimated your capability to build anything. You sound like you think that it is impossible for a bus to turn over


search youtube for"wind truck roll over" ...oh, I forgot, you can't be bothered to look yourself, you need someone to do it for you. Here is a couple of links to get you started. Sorry all the bus rollovers that I saw were filmed after the fact. These are still interesting. The most interesting thing to me, was that the cars were pretty much unaffected by the wind.



https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ruck+roll+over



2 compilations:

I like the one @ 40 sec.. that's some pretty good driving








As far as the insurance goes I see that you think that no longer have to misinform/trick the insurance but can just get them to do whatever you want. Please tell us all how you did it, after you do it, right now it just sounds like more bs. Not saying it is impossible...just...



"By "Fastest build" I'm referring the the actual time "when working on it", duh? My point is that anyone wanting to get done fast, this is how it's done.".....OK


"End of story. Move on to something productive.".... At last, something sensible.


some of the scenery sure looks like the southern portion of hwy 22 in southern Alberta - an area infamous for high cross winds - I came through through there one time towing my dog trailer when the wind was really blowing - there were 3 semis on their sides and an empty horse trailer - the pickup towing the horse trailer was still sitting on it's rubber, but the trailer was flat on it's side - I was sure glad I had recently changed to a wider axle because the trailer was more stable than my HD 2500 chevy - I was the last one through before they closed the road - a bit nerve wracking when nature shows that kind of power
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:38 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
A long post only to conclude that you were comparing apples and oranges. A full size bus has a much lower center of gravity than a semi. The only example that is in the videos of a bus resulted in that vehicle being relocated to a field. Most of those semi's were empty and the trailers act like sailboats in high wind. I drove trucks in the western states for 45 years, have encountered extreme winds in Wyoming countless times, and always had the brain power to know when to park if my load was too light. I will not be hesitant to operate my bus in high wind situations, but will also use common sense to park it when I need to. You will probably not find bus "blow overs" involving school buses, as the center of gravity is much lower, weight is a factor, and the operators Have the common sense to not expose their vehicles to those conditions. End of rant.



Thank you for reading and commenting the "long post". It appeared to me that the truck and the bus that did not turn over, "being relocated to a field", were saved by the drivers. The truck took a 90 degree turn into a field, turning in the same direction that the trailer was trying to blow/turn over. Normally this would result in centrifugal force rolling the trailer over in the outer direction of the turn. It seems to me that he used centrifugal force to counter the wind force to keep the trailer upright. The bus driver did the same thing only not as radical of a turn. Both turned so that the wind was pushing from the back instead of the side and were lucky to have fields to turn into. Is this something that is taught to drivers, an instinctive reaction by a skilled/experienced driver, or am I just wrong in my analysis.



According to the video evidence just parking or going slow is not a viable strategy, the wind still turned them over. If my analysis is correct I would need to park with the front or rear facing into the wind for best effect.



As to the trailers being empty, that would be my assumption also, but I do not "KNOW" that. After all the wind moves heavily loaded ships across oceans. I think the size, height of the sail, whether it is top heavy, whether the load is secured well enough, or has a dynamic/swinging/moving load has more to do with "blow overs" than the weight of the load. I don't think that dynamic/swinging/moving loads would be a problem for buses unless they are carrying a lot of people or double deckers. I used to see a lot livestock and butchered ("swinging beef") loads turned over in Texas, usually at sharp curves.
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Old 07-25-2019, 08:07 PM   #106
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Federal Law requires all school buses to be able to withstand a 100 mph crosswind while on a level plain.

Google this and you can find the documents. School buses and semi's not even in the same category thank God.

Hope this helps somebody. You won't find videos or pictures of school bus's blown over by high wind. Tornado maybe.
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Old 07-25-2019, 08:14 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
Federal Law requires all school buses to be able to withstand a 100 mph crosswind while on a level plain.

Google this and you can find the documents. School buses and semi's not even in the same category thank God.

Hope this helps somebody. You won't find videos or pictures of school bus's blown over by high wind. Tornado maybe.
Or maybe a jet:
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:59 PM   #108
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I wonder if the hat channels were cut in advance of the blow over to make the video more sensational?
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:08 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRushBus View Post
Federal Law requires all school buses to be able to withstand a 100 mph crosswind while on a level plain.

Google this and you can find the documents. School buses and semi's not even in the same category thank God.

Hope this helps somebody. You won't find videos or pictures of school bus's blown over by high wind. Tornado maybe.

Google failed me for some reason, but I'd LOVE to see this in writing. We've stayed in some pretty high wind areas of South Dakota and Wyoming and it's always made me a little nervous. For my peace of mind, could you provide a link? I'd be much obliged.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:13 PM   #110
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I wonder if the hat channels were cut in advance of the blow over to make the video more sensational?
I dunno, that seems like way more of an impact on the roof than what a bus could experience in a road accident - the back end was 15 to 20 feet in the air - so I don't think they'd have to resort to sabotage to get cool footage. When I posted this before someone said this is a Wayne school bus, which apparently had a separate roof made from longitudinal panels, instead of one-piece hat channel ribs like most modern buses.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
I dunno, that seems like way more of an impact on the roof than what a bus could experience in a road accident - the back end was 15 to 20 feet in the air - so I don't think they'd have to resort to sabotage to get cool footage. When I posted this before someone said this is a Wayne school bus, which apparently had a separate roof made from longitudinal panels, instead of one-piece hat channel ribs like most modern buses.



2 comments from a schoolbus drivers forum



https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...OPIC_ID=17440&



"I'm confirming that bus was a 1970s Chevrolet Wayne with a 4way warning light system."


"I tuned into that episode as well, and I saw the bus go airborne and then roll into a rather compact mess. That bus was most likely pre 77 safety standards though. I would like to see them try that again with a post 77 bus, as the increased structural integrity may help the bus to not compact the roof as much."
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:40 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post






Bus VS Jet from another perspective








https://www.free-funny-jokes.com/funny-bus-jokes.html


How can you kill an idiot with half a dollar?... Throw it under a bus.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:56 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
I dunno, that seems like way more of an impact on the roof than what a bus could experience in a road accident - the back end was 15 to 20 feet in the air - so I don't think they'd have to resort to sabotage to get cool footage. When I posted this before someone said this is a Wayne school bus, which apparently had a separate roof made from longitudinal panels, instead of one-piece hat channel ribs like most modern buses.
sorry wrong comment
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:09 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Drew Bru View Post
Google failed me for some reason, but I'd LOVE to see this in writing. We've stayed in some pretty high wind areas of South Dakota and Wyoming and it's always made me a little nervous. For my peace of mind, could you provide a link? I'd be much obliged.
I spent an hour on the ecosia.org search engine looking for FED regulations. I couldn't find anything to support it either, but here are the results before I gave up

Some regs: Fed Rollover Standard 220

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.220

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id..._1220&rgn=div8

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t59c067.php

good driving advice
https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/.../handout8.html
https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/...c_8/page9.html

Quora had 2 comments , first is bs
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-maxi...bus-can-handle


blowover stories
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/50215...-bus-over.html

https://www.abc27.com/news/school-bu...wind-icy-road/

https://www.facebook.com/ABCNews/vid...6973765768812/


Bus drivers forum thread on wind
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=11981

At least one driver feels like me about taller being worse...

"I bet our high headroom Thomas ER's and IC's are more at risk during high winds. More surface area for the winds to press against."


An interesting comment on bus skirting

"Our Thomas ERs, which have the low skirting option, seem to be very stable driving in high winds. On the other hand, our AmTran REs (which have standard skirting) seem to get blown around a lot more. It was unnerving the first time I drove my AmTran RE on the highway during a fiercely windy day... it felt like the bus was fixing to change lanes on its own without my consent!! Maybe the lower skirting on a bus keeps the wind from having a "lifting" effect as well as a "pushing" effect??"


on this thread they seem to think 30-40mph is starting to get risky
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=11378


somewhat interesting pdfs
https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/...9-vol7-part605
49 CFR 605 - SCHOOL BUS OPERATIONS.pdf


https://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/Schoo...s/1990NCST.pdf
1990 National Standards for Schoolbuses & Operations...interesting 125 page pdf

http://www.nasdpts.org/documents/Pub...iniGuide04.pdf
MINI GUIDEto the FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLESAFETY STANDARDS and RELATED REGULATIONS(issued as of May 1, 2004)

A links page
Library






on GOOGLE I got some surprising and contradictory results

https://www.google.com/search?q=What...w=1600&bih=805
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