First Post

[lornaschinske]

Removed post because Nat_ster knows EVERYTHING.

[nat_ster]

Just wondering why you are pointing people to bad advice Lorna. Two dogs clearly was on some bad medication when he wrote that nonsense.

Nat

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

Just wondering why you are pointing people to bad advice Lorna. Two dogs clearly was on some bad medication when he wrote that nonsense.

Nat

Did you try it?

I can answer that. No. Just like the ones who put it down didn't try it. The ones who did try it reported great success. No more rust. One guy had rust with POR15 and no rust with TwoDogs recipe. I included the "debate" because it covered what anyone here would say. A bit of "full disclosure" you might say. I knew I shouldn't have posted it. I will pull it and keep the info to myself.

[nat_ster]

I post for others to learn. Not any other reason. I am a full time professional building contractor with a very busy schedule. I would not be where I'm at today if others didn't help me learn. Lorna, for the sake of other members trying to learn, please loose your less than professional attitude. If you haven't tried it your self, than how do you know it works. Many of our fellow members here are working on a very limited budget, and the ingredients in Two Dogs recipe are not cheap.

Anytime a breakthrough home brew recipe for something gets posted on the internet, it spreads like wild fire.....If it works. There is a reason other members can't find it when they search. The way Two Dogs posted, with his arrogant attitude, right off the bat sends up red flags. Most likely he has inhaled far to many toxic paint fumes. He was not a team player for sure.

The chemistry of Two Dogs home brew Por 15 recipe indicates that it does nothing to stop, or neutralizes the rust behind it. It simply encapsulates the surface rust from the out side. This WILL FAIL as rust will start again anywhere there is a rock chip, crack, ect.

Now I'm reposting the link you removed so others that want to take the risk can find out for themselves.
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/ ... 1063566910

One more place Lorna endorsed Two Dogs recipe. Again it never got any big results.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/rust-bullet-47858.html

Sorry for such a long post. It just frustrates me when people post stuff that is not true. In all walks of life I hold people accountable.

Nat

Posted for educational purposes only.

[yawnzzz...]

Everyone knows if you don't want rust scale it off.
Grind it down to bare metal and start from scratch.

Since this is a very sensitive topic.

phosphoric acid converts iron oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4.

After treatment, the black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off, leaving a fresh metal surface. Multiple applications of phosphoric acid may be required to remove all rust. The black phosphate coating can also be left in place, where it will provide moderate further corrosion resistance (such protection is also provided by the superficially similar Parkerizing and blued electrochemical conversion coating processes).

After reading this I gather that blends are worthless except to the manufacturer/marketer.

For instance. If I grind all the rust off a piece of steel and seal it in paint It wont rust for some time because of the lack of oxygen.
If I ," treat ", then paint the same piece without scaling or grinding the rust would chip off therefore exposing metal to the atmosphere, thus causing the
piece to oxidize, or rust.

Now Some of the blends I have read about are almost useless as using coca cola, or dr.pepper for their phosphoric content.

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

I post for others to learn. Not any other reason. I am a full time professional building contractor with a very busy schedule.

Hey Nat...

I'm a former professional remodeler. Hubby & I remodeled upscale vintage buildings. I am a former NKBA trained Kitchen & Bath Designer. Also former cabinet installer, cabinet builder, cabinet countertop fabricator. Like most women, family took precedence over work. Hence the former for so much. And a current bus converter. So perhaps I might know a little something.

This is why I was hesitant to post and why I also included the link with the discussion. But we HAVE used the extra pricey POR-15. Like I said... NOT IMPRESSED. Prepped correctly according to POR-15 direction. Less than 1 year later we had rust under the paint every place we used the POR-15. As for the expense...

1 quart Lacquer Thinner $7.46
1 quart Rustoelum Black $9.48
1 quart All-Purpose Fiberglass Resin $14.97

Enough to make 3 quarts = $32.41 ($10.81 per quart) since I can buy this at the local store... no shipping, just local taxes.

POR-15 has a special when you buy a 4 pack (4 quarts) for just $165.50 ($41.375 per quart) plus $12.75 for shipping to my zip code or you can pay $47.50 for a quart plus $6.75 shipping to my zip code.

I really don't care if you guys use the homebrewed recipe or not. If you want to got the POR-15 route then go for it. I think the POR15 was a rip off. But maybe we got a bad batch. I won't be buying any more. The "rust converters" worked the same as POR-15 for us (rust under paint a few months later). I won't be buying any of those either.

So, Nat, did any rust come back in the areas you used the POR-15 in? And how long was the rust free time?

[yawnzzz...]

No they are not the same.

However they both have potential to remove rust.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by wmkbailey

I don't understand, they are both round and we eat then. Aren't they the same.

<_<

>_>

They're also fruits!

*FLEES~!*

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

No they are not the same.

However they both have potential to remove rust.

They also are full of fiber to help you not be full of..... poo. I get my daily dosage of fiber. I'm not so sure about others.

[bansil]

They can both be drank....adult and underage

[Das Mel]

Vitamin A!

Vitamin C, too!

Not just a good-for-you vitamin but a Band Name as well (and a pretty snazzy one at that).

[yawnzzz...]

I mixed up some O.J. for breakfast and it was great.
Sometimes that concentrate doesn't taste just right.

Today I'm going to price some floor for the living area.

What is the name of that band Mel? Always interested in new tunes.

[freakn]

Well said Accordian, I was working on my reply when you posted yours. Cheers

[yawnzzz...]

Well I fried some french fries today. Grease cleans up real nice off the window above the stove.

For the floor in the living area I am going to purchase a few cow hides and throw those down.
I think a leather floor will be a great comfort. In the kitchen I will use Commercial Vinyl Tile.

I recently acquired some oak cabinets during a recent remodel. All I will have to do is re-size them.

I'm going to use leftover marble for the bathroom, and shower.

Also I bought a rooftop a/c today. I am going to install this first thing so I will have a/c during the build.
Can anyone recommend where to put it? I am looking at midway back or about 10-15 feet from the nose.

[bansil]

You'll probably end up wanting more than 1 ac unit

I would install it either 1/3 from front or back,if bedroom is in back then I would condition that room/area personally.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

What is the name of that band Mel? Always interested in new tunes.

Vitamin C. Recollect a while ago Coca-Cola had a commercial that used a song with "Put A Smile On Your Face" in the lyrics? That song is called 'Smile'.

[Tango]

I can't comment on POR or the Two Dog formula since I've never used either one...but...I have used a rust converter product by Quest Chemical called "Restore" on the steel in my sculptural work (rebar) for about a dozen years with outstanding results. I ran nearly five years worth of tests trying to make it rust and couldn't. Soaked it with concentrated saltwater, poured Muriatic acid on it, cut through the protective surface and still could not generate any oxidation anywhere except where the raw metal was exposed. And it did not migrate beyond that point. Needless to say, I am treating just about everything on my bus with it. Runs almost $20 a quart but seems to go a long ways. It is a Tannic acid based converter that also produces a poly finish. All the other converters I've seen are only rated as a primer and require a topcoat to protect it, this one has it built in. Good stuff.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by thjakits

If POR doesn't do it for you, look to the boat/ship industry: food grade epoxy paint (....like is used for fish tanks - as in seiner boats and similar).

Oomph, you said the magical words for me, marine industry.

*All Shiny Eyed*

All things considering, I'm hauling my bus to the Seas Shore, so she'd better bloody well be rust-proof. I'll contact someone in the industry while I'm here in the Sahara and find out what they're using. Couldn't hurt, at any rate, and it would only take a couple of emails and maybe a few phone calls.

I wonder if my dream boat is still for sale...

[yawnzzz...]

I plan to treat my work trailer with phosphoric prep n etch in the near future. I will post the before and after pictures.
It turns rusty metal back to a stable paint-able/weld-able surface. You can watch it convert the rust back before your very eyes.

It does need to be dry before painting, or adhesion problems may occur.
Some people prefer to wash the phosphoric off after treatment. However I believe
doing this may cause water to become trapped under the paint causing future rust.
I prefer to leave the sticky phosphoric residue behind as this seems to help the paint to stick.

Now through experience any coolant spilled on the floor will cause the paint not to stick.
I had some small blotches where the paint peeled back because of coolant I spilled when removing the heater
hoses. A good scrubbing may remove the layer of silicon dioxide/ethylene glycol. However I have not proven
this theory.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

I plan to treat my work trailer with phosphoric prep n etch in the near future. I will post the before and after pictures.

You can watch it convert the rust back before your very eyes.

Pictures! Yes, please!

Sounds like magic, Charrrrrrlie.