Gilligan Phantom (1987 Gillig Phantom School Bus Full Time Conversion) - Page 4

Juicifer · 01-30-2018, 01:15 PM

I forgot to link to the video of removing the rubber floor. I ended up using a heat lamp to help me get it up. Short video of that can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRJwDYPjgU&t=25s

Juicifer · 01-30-2018, 01:20 PM

I did finish the furring strips. I ended up using some of the rigid foam that came with the bus and cut it to a bit less than 1/2 inch thick strips which compressed down to about 1/8 of an inch. Seems like it could help, but I don't really know. Is it worth the effort? Maybe time will tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIUDTEVBq5M

I have removed, resealed and reinstalled all driver side windows as well. This time around I was a bit less aggressive with the angle grinder and therefore removed less factory paint. I also primed only the heavily rusted spots with Rusty Metal Primer and used Clean Metal Primer on the other areas and I brushed it on instead of spraying. It went much better this time around. So now I've just got to figure out finally how to seal the rubber seals as they hit the glass on the bottom pane's and maybe I'll finally be fully leak free!!!

Robin97396 · 01-30-2018, 02:38 PM

Looks like really good quality work to me. Nice bus too.

Don't get to many of those little poop machines. What a cuty.

Juicifer · 02-03-2018, 07:28 PM

My hatches came early! They are very nice. I did get one hatch installed yesterday with some effort.

It was my first time removing rivets. I ended up cutting a slice into them with the angle grinder and knocking them out with a screw driver and hammer. I'm sure there's a better way that would leave a hatch undamaged. Once that was done the old hatch was out.

I took a gamble on a marine hatch that had a cutout install size a little bigger than my old hatch (it was a good deal). The old hatch was 24 1/2" x 24 1/2" and by my measurements I had just a little bit more space. The new hatch was 24 11/16" x 24 11/16". After some thinking, experimenting, and then proclaiming my new motto: "I will not be defeated by 1/8" of aluminum" I forced it into place with 4 clamps while protecting the finish with some scrap wood. I pre-drilled holes, removed it, and went and bought as close to the recommended install screws as I could find. Instructions said "#10 Stainless Steel, Self-tapping screws with a 3/16 countersunk head." I found all of that, but they were not self-tapping. Would it have been so hard to send these screws with the hatch? Oh well. I got them size 1 1/4 and I wish I had gotten them smaller because 3 of them broke off flush with the hatch, and another 3 stripped out their holes!! I'm not sure what went wrong, but now I've got to figure out how to fix 6 fasteners.

Other than that I'm really happy with these hatches, and I hope the next one installs a little easier. I'll find some better screws.

I just want to note if you're going to do this on your bus, my bus has a comparably very flat roof, and so this hatch was pretty much plug and play, but if your roof is quite curved and your old hatch is not installed flat, you're going to need a platform to install this flat on.

Here's the one I ended up going with: https://goo.gl/HHHMyR and here's where I found a good price on Ebay: https://goo.gl/mSkHW1 at the moment there is one more available.

EastCoastCB · 02-03-2018, 07:54 PM

Very nice!

Rusty · 02-03-2018, 08:25 PM

Hatch looks beautiful !! Now you just need a periscope up top.

Is there a way to secure the hatch? Bad guys like to enter through the top.

Oh, and please fill out your profile so we know what you drive and where. thx. Unless you are ashamed to 'only' have a Gillig?

Juicifer · 02-05-2018, 08:27 PM

Yes the hatches lock from the inside. They're great in every way and tested them out in a storm and the one I have installed is leak free. Now I've just got to figure out what fasteners to use. My #10 Stainless Steel countersunk screws sheered off their threads, and some of them broke. I have some #12 Zinc Plated Pan Head screws in several of the holes and those are holding the hatch down well. I'm thinking of using neoprene washers thinking they'll help waterproof and also prevent galvanic corrosion from happening at all? I'm just not crazy about these SS screws and looking for a better option.

Never knew this stuff was so complicated!!

I drive a 2003 Honda Odyssey and I'm not ashamed!

Tango · 02-05-2018, 09:28 PM

For whatever reason, SS screws do seem much more inclined to shear at less torque than plain steel. Must be more brittle.

Juicifer · 02-12-2018, 04:36 PM

Video of the hatch install:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o29ezAWzZyc&t=1s

In the meantime I've removed and resealed every driver's side window.

I've also reinstalled both "gutters/drip rails" and added many extra fasteners to hold it very tight to the bus (one of my contributors to leaks and rust was water seeping behind this drip rail). A few trouble areas that would create a great seal got a very small bead of Sikaflex 221, and also at the front cap of the bus where there is a large triangular gap, sort of a design flaw got sealed up as well.

Next up for me is wall furring strips.

I want to fur the walls out ideally 1 3/4 inches to clear my "chair rail" and leave a small gap so that my wall paneling doesn't touch it. Wall paneling will be AC plywood in birch or pine (wife likes the wavy look of pine, I like the subtle grain of birch. who will win?) with the seems left exposed and the windows will be framed out with AC plywood as well. So the plywood seems will be the finished surface on the inside of windows and the window sill. I know carpenters have been covering up the edges of plywood for decades. I happen to think it's an interesting industrial/modern look. It'll be sealed with several coats of polyurethane.

Hopefully I'll find a table saw this week so I can start ripping plywood this weekend. If not, I'll install our second boat hatch. Thanks for reading and watching!

Jolly Roger bus 223 · 02-12-2018, 05:27 PM

Especially with a little one momma always wins.
I would definitely insulate between the two.
I used wainscoting/bead board and have gotten away with it so far but now momma is decorating with paint. So in the end momma wins.

Juicifer · 02-12-2018, 08:26 PM

It's really nice to see a space with the pine ply installed. Thanks for sharing that with me! Yeah momma's probably gonna win. I try and save my energy for the logistics anyway. I do like both options!

Juicifer · 02-19-2018, 07:04 PM

Installed furring strips on the walls.

The plywood joints on the top strips will be finished and become our window sills after 1/2 or 3/4 plywood panels are added way down the road. The face of the windows will get 3/4 plywood as well, and the tops of the windows will get doubled up 3/4 runners and those three things will make up our finished windows. Many believe that plywood joints should be covered. I happen to think they look really cool. Sort of like an industrial, scandinavian look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuXo...ature=youtu.be

ComfortEagle · 02-27-2018, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicifer

Installed furring strips on the walls.

The plywood joints on the top strips will be finished and become our window sills after 1/2 or 3/4 plywood panels are added way down the road. The face of the windows will get 3/4 plywood as well, and the tops of the windows will get doubled up 3/4 runners and those three things will make up our finished windows. Many believe that plywood joints should be covered. I happen to think they look really cool. Sort of like an industrial, scandinavian look.

Justin, hope all is well with you and the girls. I am anxious to hear what you guys have been up to with the bus.

In addition to sorting out my battery project, I think I may start pulling the windows out soon to re-seal around the frames; not looking forward to it. Have you looked into what it might take to restore the windows themselves, as in replacing the old rubber, etc.?

Juicifer · 02-27-2018, 06:46 PM

Hey Rick,

Everything is going well. Having a little more girl time than bus time at the moment and most of March. Lots of visitors and birthdays and small trips are taking up my time. To me, there is little that is more important than my 16 hours weekly working on the bus, but I'm not the boss

I am just as enthusiastic about the bus, but the obsession is starting to wear away after 3 months of living and breathing bus conversions. That's probably a good thing, and it's mostly a result of finally having a grasp for most of these concepts in my brain, so I can let it go a little bit.

That being said I am going to find more damn hours to work on this bus so help me!

Tomorrow and this week I start the subfloor.

My final window work and subsequent youtube video will be up/done very soon. Here is the teaser: all of the windows (except for driver, and very back) are sealed and reinstalled. However, I have not sealed the rubber gaskets. I will be addressing them very soon. I took a step back to really figure out what product I want to use on them. I know that the seal will fail someday...so I don't want to use anything that is a strong adhesive and can never be removed or recoated. I want a product that is black, rubbery, stays flexible, easy to tool, and a great sealant. I have actually ordered several products, most of which I've tested, and I'll be making my final decision and application very soon. For the time being, they're only leaking during wind driven rain, and only a little.

The tightest, most aesthetic, and close to stock window install I've concluded of the two things I tried would be the Sikaflex 221, about a 1/4 inch bead. But, I'm happy with my butyl tape. I am confident no water will penetrate it for a long time, if ever. With a line of sikaflex over the tops of the windows (right above the screws), and then the drip rail reinstalled with extra self tapping screws, and a bit of sikaflex above the drip rail where it meets the bus in just a few spots where it continued to gap, I have 3 lines of protection against the bulk of the water (what lands on the roof and then drips to the sides. I'm mentioning all of this because I hear it's hard to get stock bus windows to seal right, and a little nerve wracking to take a gamble on doing it.

If you're going to take the windows apart and have new rubber seals made and rebuild windows, god bless you. I think this is the "right" way to do it, but it's definitely going to be a lot of work, time, and I don't see a guarantee that your windows won't still leak when you're done with it. They probably won't! When I'm done I'm confident mine won't leak for at least a couple years.

I would love to hear your plans for HVAC, solar/battery/generator, heat, or backup heat, water heater, and what fuels you're going to use to get it all done. Have you figured much of that out yet?

ComfortEagle · 02-27-2018, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicifer

Hey Rick,

Everything is going well. Having a little more girl time than bus time at the moment and most of March. Lots of visitors and birthdays and small trips are taking up my time. To me, there is little that is more important than my 16 hours weekly working on the bus, but I'm not the boss

I am just as enthusiastic about the bus, but the obsession is starting to wear away after 3 months of living and breathing bus conversions. That's probably a good thing, and it's mostly a result of finally having a grasp for most of these concepts in my brain, so I can let it go a little bit.

That being said I am going to find more damn hours to work on this bus so help me!

Tomorrow and this week I start the subfloor.

My final window work and subsequent youtube video will be up/done very soon. Here is the teaser: all of the windows (except for driver, and very back) are sealed and reinstalled. However, I have not sealed the rubber gaskets. I will be addressing them very soon. I took a step back to really figure out what product I want to use on them. I know that the seal will fail someday...so I don't want to use anything that is a strong adhesive and can never be removed or recoated. I want a product that is black, rubbery, stays flexible, easy to tool, and a great sealant. I have actually ordered several products, most of which I've tested, and I'll be making my final decision and application very soon. For the time being, they're only leaking during wind driven rain, and only a little.

The tightest, most aesthetic, and close to stock window install I've concluded of the two things I tried would be the Sikaflex 221, about a 1/4 inch bead. But, I'm happy with my butyl tape. I am confident no water will penetrate it for a long time, if ever. With a line of sikaflex over the tops of the windows (right above the screws), and then the drip rail reinstalled with extra self tapping screws, and a bit of sikaflex above the drip rail where it meets the bus in just a few spots where it continued to gap, I have 3 lines of protection against the bulk of the water (what lands on the roof and then drips to the sides. I'm mentioning all of this because I hear it's hard to get stock bus windows to seal right, and a little nerve wracking to take a gamble on doing it.

If you're going to take the windows apart and have new rubber seals made and rebuild windows, god bless you. I think this is the "right" way to do it, but it's definitely going to be a lot of work, time, and I don't see a guarantee that your windows won't still leak when you're done with it. They probably won't! When I'm done I'm confident mine won't leak for at least a couple years.

I would love to hear your plans for HVAC, solar/battery/generator, heat, or backup heat, water heater, and what fuels you're going to use to get it all done. Have you figured much of that out yet?

Life does get busy; sounds like good stuff. Enjoy the little one, they don't stay like that...

I look forward to your window video and everything else you are doing. I appreciate your thorough research.

As for systems integration planning, I added some notes here.

Juicifer · 03-12-2018, 11:10 AM

Sorry forgot to post my leaking window conclusion from several days ago. I ended up using Geocel Proflex on a couple select window seals/areas that we problematic. It is currently raining and my windows are not leaking a drop? Will they never leak? That's unlikely, and I be in the right storm/conditions they still might leak a drop. I'm going to continually monitor them and work out every little kink, but at the moment I'm leak free. If you're interested in the details, my video is below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COAePJ-PdQw&t=8s

Juicifer · 03-16-2018, 03:30 PM

Next up I installed a floating subfloor. I basically made an insulation and plywood sandwich with glue instead of any framework or screws. This allows us to prevent thermal breaks. I must acknowledge if you're willing to sacrifice more headspace in your bus conversion you should consider buying a much thicker foam than the 1/2 inch that we used. This 1/2 inch only gives us about R3 (including the bottom and top plywood I suppose it's like R4.3), and if you're going to be in super cold or hot climates, you'll be much happier with say R15, although that would require 3 inches of foam (you guys all know this already).

For plywood I bought 5/8th of an inch CDX. I would have liked to have found a tongue and groove product in that size but couldn’t find it and didn’t want to lose any more headspace by going to 3/4. It's solid and I'm happy with it so far.

I offset the foam and plywood seams so that the pressure at the edges isn’t all in one place.

Lastly, I used large tubes of PL Premium adhesive which is supposed to be acceptable for foam and we used a bit less than one large tube per surface, so if you have a 4 foot bus you’ll need a bit less than 20 tubes.

I weighed it down with concrete bags and some cinderblocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP2jhBA7cOc&t=25s

Juicifer · 03-17-2018, 08:52 PM

I'm sitting here kind of wondering what to do next.

1. I could run electrical lines, but I'm so in over my head trying to understand how to actually execute my plan, that I just don't quite feel ready.

2. I could install the Bamboo engineered floating floor I picked up cheap on CL. It would be easiest to install before framing, and I wouldn't have to install trim at the edges if I do it this way, but that would also mean I couldn't easily replace it someday should I want to (not sure why I'd want to, just sounds nice to be able to do...). I'd also have to screw my framing and structures through it, and it's pretty tough stuff...

3. I could start framing. I would start with the wheel wells, and then the back bed, closets, working my way towards the bunk beds, and then bathroom walls, kind of doing progressively more difficult projects. I don't have much experience with this so it's going to be a slow learning project. But then I'd have to install my ceiling panels around framing, which may also be annoying.

4. It'd be nice to install the ceiling, which I could do without running any electrical because we don't plan to have any electrical lines up there (although I'd have to install solar mounting, and solar combiner box first), but I'll need to spray foam first and before I spray foam I need to run electrical in walls.

Luckily I have a few projects I can work on while I try and decide what to do next. What would you do? Any help is appreciated!!

Twigg · 03-17-2018, 09:02 PM

Put the new floor in.

It's one job done then there are fewer on the list to choose from.

Alternately, fit the solar junctions and the ceiling ...

ComfortEagle · 03-18-2018, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicifer

I'm sitting here kind of wondering what to do next.
1. run electrical lines...
2. install the Bamboo engineered floating floor...
3. start framing...
4. install the ceiling...

Good question. FWIW, here's are my thoughts.

1. run electrical lines...
If your design and layout is finalized, maybe just run some of the lines. Do they have to go in the walls? Check out my hero Juan and his wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKwdHSAjKs

2. install the Bamboo engineered floating floor...
Although it would be (and will be) really satisfying to have a beautiful finished floor installed, doing flooring this early in the build would IMO provide too many opportunities for it to get damaged, plus a floating floor really should be able to float.

3. start framing...
Again, if your layout is finalized and you've sourced or designed (not necessarily bought) all your interior furniture, hardware, appliances, etc., doing some initial framing before spraying foam could be beneficial. Spray foaming partially framed wheel wells, under the bed, and other spaces would make it easier to get added insulation in some spaces.

4. install the ceiling...
Sounds like you've already ruled this one out for now.

My basic plan (if I ever finish interior demo, restoration, and windows) will be:
1) Getting the roof squared away, sealing, "painting", hatches, solar wiring and mounting hardware
2) initial framing
3) spray foam
4) ceiling
5) final framing
6) on and on...

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