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Old 04-05-2006, 09:34 PM   #1
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Havoc on the Highway

Ok, I've decided to start a new thread for Havoc's progress. Thus far all that has been completed is the removal of the seats.

Wellllll...........my buddy Shane finally made it back from his trip across Europe with his girlfriend (and my good friend). While he was gone we did manage to haul the seats off to the dump. Cost me $18 to get rid of 16 of the 22. The rest will be used for parts.

That said...Shane and I accomplished perhaps the worst part thus far. We swept up everything which really was royal pain. It was covered in about 55 gallons of floor dry used to soak up the coolant lost when the heaters were removed .

After we swept we hosed the whole thing out (it was down to bare metal). We then scrubed it as best as we could with a product called Dirtex and rinsed again and again. After it dried it was FINALLY time to paint.

We severely underestimated things when we bought some spray paint. End result was that the spraypaint was used on the edges and around the holes where the seats bolted as they had very light surface rust. We then rolled on a coat of red enamel primer we went and bought. That was much quicker than spraying ever could have been. We are now just waiting for the first coat to dry so we can add another coat of paint that no one will ever see.

That brings me to my current question. When attaching the furring strips, what does everyone think of using liquid nails with just a screw on each end and maybe the middle? I think it would secure it better and will be squeak free, but my experience with liquid nails is very limited. I also like the idea of not poking a bunch more holes in an otherwise good floor. Any thoughts on this out there?
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:03 PM   #2
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We managed to get a lot more done on Thursday. We called around all the local lumberyards in search of prices, but ended up finding it necessary to drive to Duluth to go to Home Depot (~60 miles south). I hate to not shop locally, but the local guys need to get their pricing in order. I understand volumte buying and all, but the same piece of wood (it all comes from either Bemidji or one of the Potlatch plants) should not cost twice as much.

Anyway....we started furring the floor out with the 1x2's. That is turning out to be a lot of work. Hard to get the grid straight as well being that the furring strips bow as much as 1 inch out in the middle. I guess that's why we have a 2 inch wide screwing target for the plywood.....

The furring strips are being attached with two methods. We are first coating them with liberal amounts of the "Project" type Liquid Nails (the cheap stuff). We are then predrilling and screwing them with 10 year rated double dipped deck screws every 2 feet or so. They aren't going anywhere.....

As for insulation...we decided on plain white styrofoam instead of the pink stuff. It carries an R-value of only 2.9 versus the 4.0 for the pink stuff, but was half the price and should work FINE for this application as I'm more interested in the sound deadening than the heat retention properties. The plywood will go down over this structure after a proper vapor barrier has been installed. We bought 3/8 inch sheathing rated plywood that has been sanded on one side for $12 per sheet. Thicker may have been better, but I'm not worried about it. This will be attached with liquid nails on the whole furring strip grid and screws every foot or so. I don't want squeaks.....

One more interesting thing I learned last night. When I started the bus up last night after working on it in the driveway, the oil pressure was VERY low so I shut it down immediately. I have never had that problem before. I once again checked the dipstick as I do on a daily basis and found it was still well within the "FULL" hash marks, but decided to add some oil anyway. 2 quarts barely brought the level up to the top of the hash marks, but after that the oil pressure was restored. I would have added another quart, but I plan to change the oil in the bus here in the hear future so it would just be wasted anyway. Long story short I've learned that "FULL" means "ADD" and "ADD" means buy a new motor. Was your 6.6 like that at all, Jason? My oil consumption seems low btw and when it warms up the gauge is almost pinned against the "H" mark.
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Old 04-07-2006, 07:33 PM   #3
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my dipstick seemed to be quite acurate....but my engine also held 5.5 gallons of oil. I know they make different size oil pans for that motor.

my oil pressure guage quit working (and it didn't have psi on it anyhow) So i added an aftermarket guage for about 20 bucks. I prefer the physical gauge verses th electronic one....but they both have their disadvantages. Could be that your guage isn't working properly.....

the oil pan doesn't appear to be dented does it?
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:27 PM   #4
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The oil pan isn't dented. The capacity of the system as written in sharpie on the firewall and confirmed by the owners manual is 20 quarts, but I think that an extra quart isn't going to hurt anything or cause any excessive windage.

I question the accuracy of the gauge as well and will replace it when time allows along with the voltage gauge that reads anywhere between 0-18 volts on a given day. Accurate or not though, the oil gauge still does distinquish between a normal and low pressure. I'd just hate to hatch my engine this early into things. With only 85,000 miles (5000 hours though) on it, I don't think it should be a huge problem.
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:22 AM   #5
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As of Sunday all the furring was done. I have to take pictures for the website before we go any further, but I'll spare all of you. I just figure you've all seen what a furred out floor looks like.

We severely underestimated the number of drill bits needed. I think I broke like 8 of them.

The next step is going to be cutting all the insulation to fit and laying out the vapor barrier. It cost me $12 for a 10x50 foot sheet of 4 mil poly vapor barrier which hurts for a piece of plastic, but it could be worse. Then it's just a matter of cutting down all the plywood to 90inches wide and laying it down. Progress is slow, but atleast it's just that....progress.
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:47 PM   #6
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Check to see that you have the correct dipstick. Somewhere, I think on this forum, someone mentioned finding out that his vehicle had the wrong dipstick.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:56 PM   #7
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Well.....I know it's been a long time since anything has been updated on the project, but truth be told...it's because not much has happened with it. That is until recently....

Myself as well as 4 others will be taking Havoc to Country Fest 2006 in Cadott, WI next week and after last year's hail incident we decided we should take something more civilized. Please keep in mind that all the work you see in the gallery has basically been accomplished in the last two weeks thanks to a group of motivated friends.

Prior to starting Shane, Natalie, and myself finished cleaning up the floor, painting it with red industrial metal primer, furring it, installing the insulation and vapor barrier, and topped it with 3/8 inch CDX. I know it sounds thin, but it is plenty strong enough with the foam and furring strips under it.

Carpentry: My buddies and myself started building up the walls using 2x2's as studs. There is one screwed into the wall as a good solid base with the others being attached to the floor and the bows in the roof with zinc plated steel angle brackets. Inside the walls is a layer of 1 inch styrofoam insulation to quiet everything down. They are paneled in 1/4 inch mohagany (sp?) plywood as it was the cheapest. It also has an ok finish being that interior paint before c-fest is not an option.

There are a total of 3 bulkheads comprised of 2 walls each. The rear most section of the bus is my bedroom with a twin size bed on one side and some yet to be built cabinets and a desk on the otherside. Under my bed is the watering system.

The next room contains the bunks which are somewhat integral to the walls, wheelwells, outer seat rail, etc. Framed in 2x4's and covered in 1/2 inch plywood means these are not weak bunks. The bunks are designed for a 6'5" occupant and fit a single sized hospital matress quite well. They are actually big enough to allow two close friends to sleep on one. Privacy curtains are yet to be installed.

The next bulkhead makes up the bathroom on one side (drivers) and the shower (will not be completed for c-fest) on the other. The toilet is a 1982 model Thetford cassette type. It's not pretty, but it gets the job done, especially for a group of people are not full timing it and will likely be places with bathroom facilities anyway.

The forward most bulkhead closes off the living room from the sleeping and bath areas. On the door side will be mounted the stove and sink I bought from a used camper. This thing barely had 6 months on it. The other side will house an entertainment center that will hold the TV, fridge, Playstation 2, audio equipment, and microwave with some spare counter space. I can't well describe what it will look like so you will just have to wait for finished pictures.

The living room contains a fullsize couch making sleeping 6 more than comfortable in Havoc. Opposite the couch will eventually be a dinette, but for C-Fest it will just be a card table with some camping chairs.

Electrical: So far I have pruchased only 2 golf cart batteries rated at 110 minutes reserve capacity @ 75 amps of draw. This will be ok for now given the usage the bus will have in the next few months. They are mounted in the starting battery compartment which has been made about 4 inches taller to accomadate the taller house batteries.

In the compartment where the Webasto diesel heater used to be I have mounted the two 750 watt inverters I (and several others from here) bought off eBay. Next to them is mounted a simple metal industrial outlet with 4 plug ins and a 10 gauge cord coming out the back. The 10 gauge cord with plug is what hooks into either shore power or the gennie. There are then three different colored 14 gauge wires with plugs coming into the compartment as you can see in the photos in the gallery. Each color represents a seperate 120v circuit within the bus. They can either be plugged into the outlet box or the inverters (or any combination). Though it might not be deemed the "safest" route, it eliminates any possibility of having two feed sources on one circuit. I don't mind manually transfering power. All wiring is in the original chase panels near the roof or in chase panels built by boxing in where the original outer seat rail was.

Green: Livingroom outlets (with individual breakers) for the fridge, TV, etc
Pink: Livingroom lights and outlet by the sink/stove
Yellow: Rear lighting and outlets

All the lighting is of the flourescent type. I purchased nine 15 watt, 18 inch under cabinet lights which do a FINE job of illuminating everything. The livingroom has 4, the bathroom 1, and each bed has its own. The lights each have their own switch so that controlling power consumption and lighting is easy. Though they hum slightly on inverter power, the light output and low draw is well worth the trade off.

In the master bedroom there is a yet unmounted fixture I purchased from work for $9 which will house two 15 watt compact flourescent lights with one shining the bed and the other the cabinent/desk area.

With all the lights on I am still only drawing 135 watts and could probably guide a 747 in for landing.

Plumbing: I didn't want a pump because I don't like their cost or the problems they can suffer from mal-maintenance which I'm known for. Instead I went with the air pressurized system.

My holding tank is a 55 gallon plastic NSF drum I had laying around from an old diving platform I had. Into the knockouts on the top and bottom is fitted a manifold which is then JB Welded in, but has unions to allow for tank removal.

The upper manifold is the air control manifold. One leg is a simple air bleed with a valve for depressurizing the system or allowing air to escape during filling. The other leg has a valve with an adjustable air regulator behind that which is fed by an 11 gallon, 125 PSI portable air tank.

The lower manifold has a valved hose connection for filling or running off city water. The other side is of course the main water supply.

Advantages of this system:

No moving parts
Silent
No maintenance
Nothing needs to be done to run off city connection

Disadvantages:

Air pressure must be monitored somewhat closely to prevent 125 PSI showers
Air supply can be depleted (though water will run out first theoretically and I have air brakes to recharge it)
It is proprietary

So far it has worked well and supplies an amazing amount of water pressure. By simply manipulating the 4 valves you can do just about anything, including pressurizing the system initially off the city hook up.

I plan a solar water heater, but will add that post later when it is done.

Licensing: I now have RV plates with an 18,000 lbs tax base. I was allowed to name my tax base. The guy at the DMV suggested 5,000 lbs, but I wanted something believable It did erk me that I had to pay 3 months at the old 27,000 lbs tax base as all plates of that nature expire in February in Minnesota. Still...I couldn't have asked for a more pleasant experience. The people at the DMV were knowledgable and helpful. After signing an affidavit, filling out a reconstruction form, and handing them a $144.75 check I was given plates. No hassle at all.

Yet to finish: Though the bedrooms and hallway are carpeted, the front room still needs its flooring. I have yet to make up my mind as to what's going there. We also need to finish up some last little wiring bits and plumbing before we leave. Construction of the entertainment center and stove/sink housing along with the gas plumbing awaits me this weekend. Finally, the outside needs to be painted. Those are the big things.

I also need to do some small stuff like inspect everything, grease everything, change the oil, fill the 60 gallon tank , etc but I think it will all be done enough in time to leave next week.

Check out the gallery and let me know what everyone thinks so far
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Old 06-17-2006, 01:14 AM   #8
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http://www.skoolie.net/gallery2/v/Skoolies/Havoc/
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Old 06-19-2006, 12:47 PM   #9
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if i read that right, you're using air from the brake system to pressurize your water tank? What a lovely idea. I've considered this before, but was worried that the air from the air brakes would be kinda dirty (ever drained your tanks and seen what comes out of them?) Is the air separated from the water by a bladder of some sort? I might be interested in doing the same. I've been considering a sink and shower system for my skoolie. I already have an unlimitd supply of hot water...assuming i have water. So i guess i really have an unlimited supply of hot. lol



Someone also had this basic idea for filtering veggie oil, which i think is a lovely idea. No pumps to worry about, high pressure (120psi...not high like 2000psi) air will certianly push hot veggie oil through a filter. A lot of pumps are not really rated for veggie oil and end up getting repalced $$$.
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Old 06-19-2006, 01:42 PM   #10
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Well Havoc, I just checked out your pictures last night and it really looks like it's coming along. I was looking to buy a used previously converted bus that used a bus supplied air pressure water system. The owner claimed it was a very successful system. The main limitation is the engine needed to be running to repressurize the system.

http://www.skoolie.net:16080/gallery/v/ ... 4.jpg.html

This is the start of the pictures of it in one of my albums.

Keep up the good work.

-Richard Haworth
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