Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-07-2007, 08:19 PM   #1
Almost There
 
abdabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 73
Year: 1984
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: orig.327, now 429
Rated Cap: 66
Send a message via ICQ to abdabbs Send a message via AIM to abdabbs
hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

Hey all,

I have been visited by Prince Procrastination and am need of help !!!!

I have two weeks, which (crosses fingers) is plenty of time, to figure out why my front right wheel has a cupping wear pattern on it. A trucker at a truck stop on the way home from Alpine Valley to Des Moines said that it was caused by a worn king pin. I have snatched a good one and have the front wheel and hub off (and damn was that a son of a dog !! the lugs prolly hadnt been off for four foot breaker bar long.)

I put the breaker bar under the hub before removing it and if anything there was about a 1/16 or so of play. Could that cause the cupping ? My front wheels are the 5 star pattern and when spinning the hub the star ends are out just about a 1/16 on two off them and maybe half that on the other. Could that also be the culprit ?

Also am I correct in thinking that there is no camber adjustment on the solid axle front ( just toe in and out ).

Anyone replaced a king pin before and have some advice.... Do I just pretty much unbolt everything and yank it off and put on the 'new' one ?

Wheel bearings seem just peachy and am also pleased to see plenty of wear left on at least those brake pads.

Heck, with the amount of miles I put on the bus I should probably just put on a new/slighty used tire and call it good...


Thanks for any and all input !!!!

TonyC in Iowa

abdabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 12:27 AM   #2
Mini-Skoolie
 
KaptnKAOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 43
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

hey Tony...

Howz the kingpin project coming?
I'm not sure if I can shed any light on this project for you or not. Most of the time, kingpins are pressed out at a machine shop... you can hammer them out, but I understand it's a real pitb. I don't know if you would have to remove the whole axel and take it to the machine shop or not. There is probably a hydralic tool you could rent that could press it out for you.
As far as alignment goes... they actually cold bend the axel with a phematic(?) press. I watched them do the alignment on my '68 F-250 Camper Special that way... it was pretty cool. There aren'y many places that even do that any more...

Good luck...
KaptnKAOS
aka
Allan
__________________
Washington...
The land where rust is like the family pet...
Ya learn to live with it and clean up after its mess... KaptnKAOS

Olde Skool '68 Ford Bluebird bus "Shorty"
https://rides.webshots.com/album/559029491BwEQCZ
KaptnKAOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 02:17 AM   #3
Bus Geek
 
the_experience03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Saint James, MN
Posts: 2,669
Send a message via MSN to the_experience03 Send a message via Yahoo to the_experience03
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

I'd be interested in seeing that alignment being done. My understanding was that they were like any other solid front axle.

In my Toyota-

Caster was factory set by the kingpin alignment in relation to the spring perches (which are determined by leaf spring centering pin location, front and rear spring eye location, etc etc etc). I changed it after my swap using degree shims between the leaf springs and that's they way I thought you would ultimately have to do it if it differed from factory specs.

The camber is set by the king pin inclination. The king pins on my vehicles use bearings instead of bushings. There is no logical way to adjust camber as best as I can tell. My scrub radius is also stuck which hurts considering my brake and hub setup....

So...the toe and thrust angle are the only things I can adjust, much like on our buses. It was always my thought that if the caster or camber was out you had tweaked a front axle and you had bigger problems provided the king pins are still in good shape.

I have never changed my own tire on the bus. I consider myself to be reasonably mechanically inclined, but it's easier for me to pay the few dollars a year for towing insurance than to get new big heavy tools (although with a Harbor Freight open in town now that might change). I have, however, always watched when my tires have come off. The tech doing it always torqued all the bolts in the normal star pattern until they were just snug and then spun the wheel. He would check the runout with a similar method to the 2x4 method above. Basically, he had a large square that he put next to the tire so he could see how much it was running out. Tightening the nut on the high side a little would pull it back in....spin some more....tighten.....spin....tighten...etc until it was at torque specs and the run out was reasonable. The last one was within 1/8 of an inch.
__________________
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...09f20d39_m.jpg
Skooling it...one state at a time...
the_experience03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 11:13 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
KC10Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 529
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International
Engine: 7.3 International diesel
Rated Cap: 60
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

Not sure about a bus, but on a car, a bad shock will cause the cupping on tires. I don't see why a bus would be any different. Bad bushings will do it too, but if I remember right, my bus doesn't have bushings. It's leaf springs in the front. Check that shock though.
__________________
Matt
1993 International Carpenter 10 Window bus
7.3L diesel w/AT545
https://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...DSC02426-1.jpg
KC10Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 09:52 AM   #5
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

at least part of your problem is the lose wheel bearing. When I was a kid in my 20's I worked on big trucks. To set wheel bearing tolerance, jack wheel up, places hands on top of tire, use feet as a wedge. Wiggle tires back forth.( I hope that you understand if you don't e-mail me back)
just hope my explanation is plain. It needs to just barely move, very little slop. too tight and the bearing binds too lose and the bearing will destroy itself. You can feel it binding if it is too tight, obviously you know what loose feels like. So tighen the bearing to the point of no slop, then tighten the nut 1/8 of turn more to seat the bearing, then back about the same to get the proper amount of play. check again with your feet and hands for the proper feel just the very minium amount of play, if it does not feel right do it again. as for toe-in the proper set up. after wheel bearings are set and you have good king pins is as follows. both wheels off of the ground, get a piece of chalk, spin tires rapidly, use chalk to mark center line in tire, in other words hold chalk against what looks to be the center of tire as it rotates to make a line all the way around the tire in same location, if its not it center it's ok, just need a measuring point all the way around the tire. Now that both tires are marked.
Measure front and rear of tire, and no you will not be able to measure 180 degrees from the other point because of obstructions ie, the motor. that ok just get as close as you can. the front should be 1/4 of an inch shorter than rear thus providing toe-in, if this make bus pull to the left or right take the adjustmen from other tie rod, but usually setting passenger side you won't have a problem. e-mail me if have any questions or need further explanation e-mail me
thanks dale
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 10:05 AM   #6
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

oh buy the way to check king pins use a 2 foot long prybar with wheel off of ground between hub and axle at the top and bottom of the king pin slop should be no more than 1/8 to 1/4 movement. sounds like alot right, wrong if you don't have some slop you can't put greaase in them. Also put as much grease as you can pump into them before checking and if your gease seals are leaking from top or bottom replace them or you won't get proper tension on the king pins, sorry I forgot this in my last post, haven a grandpa moment. dale again -e-mail me if you need more help
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 10:12 AM   #7
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

camber is set by putting the axle in a press an tweeking the angles. the only other setting is for road crown. Did you notice the shims between the u bolts and the axle passenger side should be about 1 1/4 inches higher than drivers side if not that will cause cupping, the road is higher in the center to allow water run off. this is the last one, hope it's been helpful. dale
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 05:26 AM   #8
Almost There
 
nyrockingchairs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western New York
Posts: 98
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

As far as replacing the kingpin, if that is anything like the upper and lower ball-joints on a regular truck then, yes, it can be a SOB to get in and out. From working on the bigger trucks you can sometimes whack it just right with a small sledge and it will just pop right out, we have also seen them so tight that we had to heat the whole assembly up to cherry red and then a good solid whack popped it right out.

Getting a new one in is pretty easy though (at least on the lower) since you just use the weight of the vehicle to press fit it in.

They do make a hydraulic press specifically for removing and replacing these things, but a very pricey and specific-use tool for the common garage monkey to keep around.
__________________
1988 Chevrolet S6000 8.2L Detroit Diesel
nyrockingchairs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 10:40 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

if you are interested in making this tool I can instruct you how to make it with a bottle jack some all thread rod and some steel if you can weld and are used to metal fabrication, Also once you get the king pins out an inside diametor micrometor will tell how bad the whole in the axle is egg shaped. If it is egg shapped you you can have your local amchine shop bore a larger (round) whole and sleeve it a good machinist can make the sleeve out a brass rod heat the axle and press it in.
I also need to make a ammendment to my comments on setting toe-in.
lossen both drage links on steering tube and twist to set tow in. The comment about pull to the left or right was intended to explain that you remove the tie rod from the spindle and turn it individually to cure pull to the left or right. after reading it again I realized that my comments were vague. I assumed that everyone that read it knew that turning the steering tube either way gave tow-in or tow-out equally( depending on the direction turned).
I apologize for my vagueness. dale

If anyone is interested I can explain how to set the rear track on single axle or tandem just tlet me know
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 10:58 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

also on most trucks I have a trick that we used to save time on r/r (removal/reinstalation) of the hub that most people miss.
leave your rim bolted to hub. remove bearing, remove brake lines, take impact remove the 4 bolts that hold the backing plate to the hub.
remove wheel with brakes backing plate bearing ect as one piece. do not let wheel fall on side real pain to pick twice as heavy. set to side.
all that is left is spindle and free acess to likg pin, also no brake adjustment latter at installation becaue nothing has been disturbed. to install again use two long pry bars on bottom of tire to aid in putting back bearings back on spindles. hope this helps.
this works on most trucks, because the nuts on the backing plate are welded on and the rear bearing stays in the hub. It will not work when the nuts are not welded to the backing plate because they will fall into the brake drum. If this is the case you may want to tack weld the nuts to the backing plate so it will work the next time.
hope this helps give me some feed back I have a few more tricks up my sleeve to save time if anyone is interested
Dale
oh by the way I are not n english majr please excuse my bad grammer, poor spelling, and lack of puncuation. there's a reason i are a mechan nut
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2007, 11:14 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Year: 1950
Coachwork: don't know
Chassis: cheverolet
Engine: to be determined
Rated Cap: 28
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

I wish someone would give me some feed back. I don't want be labour the point, and share info that everyone already knows.
this is just my experience not trying to be a know it all thanks dale
delbertinie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 04:11 PM   #12
Almost There
 
Coma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Piedmont, NC
Posts: 88
Year: 1981
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: 345
Rated Cap: 69
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

Dale,
I think this is good info you are posting. I just don't think many of us have had to dive into front end work, so we can't comment.

Coma
Coma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 08:06 PM   #13
Almost There
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Carriere Miss.
Posts: 97
Year: 85
Coachwork: Ward
Chassis: G.M.C. 6000 series
Engine: 366 G.M.
Rated Cap: 60
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

King pin front ends are the simplist in the world. Go to a local library and look at a Motors Manuel on 49 to 55 chevy trucks. They pretty much stayed the same up to present 18 roller trucks. In fact they are easier to work on than it is to explain how to work on them. Bear skins and stone knives technology . Caster angle is set with shims between leaf springs and the I-beam, camber dosent have to be messed with unless the truck has been in some sort of a front end wreck, like a real hard ditch'n. I have always taken the entire axel out of the truck to press out the king pins. After the I-beam has been striped of everything but the axels and king pins. I have done this and and watched this done with hammers rose bud torchs drift pins and mucho cursing with a touch knuckel flesh. But I've always figured four u-bolts taken out with a deep socket on a good impact and the I-beam is in the 50 ton press in 45 mins. The hardest part for me was getting the rite size ream and reaming the i-beam bushing for clearance on the k-pins. I perfer taking the I- beam out over leaving it in the truck because of the lack of room to swing a hammer under a fender, that and I've got a 50 ton press. A good machine shop can rebush the axels and ream them to fit your king pins. Iv'e always done this myself, being born a poor child. Russell
Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 10:01 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
timbuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: vancouver island bc
Posts: 1,028
Year: 1965
Coachwork: thomas
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 350
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

wow there is alot of great info in this thread this thread should be in the "wrenches" forum as the experience says this is an area that you want to check when buying a bus.i know that one of my kingpins has some wear in it and one does not move.but the one that moves is on the passenger side so thats ok timbuk
timbuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 11:09 AM   #15
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: downriver, detroit mi
Posts: 794
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

right side suspension parts usually mwear out at twice the rate of left side components due to the chuckhole factor. if you chane the kingpins make sure to have the bushings machined so that they are aligned with eachother.
paul iossi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 12:50 PM   #16
Almost There
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Carriere Miss.
Posts: 97
Year: 85
Coachwork: Ward
Chassis: G.M.C. 6000 series
Engine: 366 G.M.
Rated Cap: 60
Re: hopefully someone out there has an answer for me !!!!!!

Right side king pins are on the worst side of the road. If I have a bad tire I will run it on the left rear, until I replace it of coarse. Russell
Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obvious question, obvious answer Diesel Dan Conversion General Discussions 0 12-12-2010 10:17 AM
Who wants to answer a butt-load of questions??? SeanF Conversion General Discussions 11 11-22-2009 10:24 PM
I may have found the answer! Ob1 Conversion General Discussions 7 10-02-2009 07:29 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.