Journey Begins - 1988 Crown Conversion

[gmarvel]

TRUNK AREA RUBBER FLOORING COMPLETED
We have finished putting the industrial strength rubber flooring in the back trunk of the bus. Next step is putting LED lighting in the trunk. Pictures are below.

This picture shows the trunk without the flooring on the left side raised area of the trunk. We were trying to figure out what to do with it.


The rubber flooring now installed in the shelf area of the trunk.

[gmarvel]

DRIVER AREA FLOORING
We completed the finish work around the driver's area flooring today. Below is the picture with the pedals and steering column reattached and the trim pieces installed.

[gmarvel]

STEP WELL FLOORING AND TRIM FINISHED
The industrial rubber flooring that we picked up at Home Depot's website is turning out pretty great. The trim work around the flooring is now completed.

[WolfyWho]

I read your build thread from start to finish. I kept saying "wow" the whole time. So well done! I had to create an account on Skoolie just so I could tell you that. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your build out. Your thread has been very educational.

Kind Regards,
Wolfy

[gmarvel]

Hi Wolfy,

First, welcome to the world of skoolies. We are a fun and passionate bunch that love our buses and the journey to convert them to a new life.

Second, thank you for you kind words about my conversion. Donna and I met driving Crowns many years ago. I remember in my early 20's looking at Crowns and dreaming with Donna about converting one to a motorhome. I even talked with the top Crown Coach salesman about what it might cost for a new one. He estimated over $100,000 for a new Crown customized as an RV. This was in 1977. Since I was making about $7.00 per hour at the time I thought that might be a little out of my reach. I now make substantially more than my bus driver salary of decades ago. And yet, my Crown Coach RV conversion in 2014 will cost me only a small fraction of what Crown wanted back in 1977. So, I feel that I am getting a great deal and having a blast doing it. My wife drove Crowns for years and bought many of them for her fleets when she was a transportation director. Our oldest daughter is a school bus driver and a state certified instructor and drives her 1986 Crown everyday and loves it. Crown Coaches are definitely part of the family tradition.

Hopefully, I have inspired you to either continue your conversion or to buy a used bus and join the madness! I am obviously partial to Crowns. They are built like tanks and were built to last many decades. Depending on where you are in the country, Crowns may or may not be readily available (West Coast and California have the most). If not a Crown, you want to get a bus from an area of the country where the road salts and humidity have not turned it into a bunch of rust. Western US buses seem to be in the best shape.

Donna and I are getting very anxious to have this conversion completed. It has taken much longer than we had planned. Since we have never done this before, we had many stops and starts. Plus, we early on decided to do a first class conversion. That meant doing a great deal of research to find out exactly what that meant. Which is the best generator? What size generator? Do we go portable or built in? The best AC/heater units for RV's and buses? Getting the bus up to mechanical A+ shape also took longer than we expected. Doing the research on how to insulate the bus without losing headroom took some time. Until we made key decisions other major tasks got put on hold.

I know Brown Crown has spent about eight or nine years on his conversion and just announced that he was finally finished. So, being at this for a year and getting anxious to get this done looks kind of silly given Brown Crown's eight year journey. I have over 170 school districts in California as clients of our transportation software company. I have promised just about every one of them that the bus will come by for a visit (it is going to be used primarily as a training computer lab and demo bus for our software). I was hoping to go up to Idaho to one of our clients and the Idaho Transportation Conference this Summer. Nope, bus wasn't ready. Now, I am hoping for the end of August.

Everyone on this site is more than willing to help fellow conversion nuts. So, feel free to browse, ask questions, and request advice and suggestions.

Again, thank you for your encouraging comments. It is nice to hear that people appreciate our efforts.

[gmarvel]

HOT WATER HEATER PURCHASE
I did a great deal of research on the type and size of our water heater. We decided early on that this will be a propane free bus. No fireballs for us!!! So, we then looked at different types of electric water heaters. Results of our findings and of course our opinions can be found below. Other skoolie conversion nuts could have different ideas.

Tankless
We looked at tankless electric water heaters. The general conclusion from experts is that electric tankless water heaters are not ready for prime time. You can hope to get about a 20 degree difference between the water in your fresh holding tank or city water if you are hooked up. So, if the water coming into the tankless heater is 50 degrees (F), you will get in the low 70's at best for your "hot" shower. I admit, I am a wimp. I stopped taking cold showers at Boy Scout camp.

Electric Point of Use Heaters
These electric hot water heaters are small, usually 15 gallons or less. The better made ones have a great deal of insulation to help keep the water hot when the heater is off. The various websites I researched said that Rheem was the best hot water heater for RV's. You can get them with a capacity of 6 Gallons and up. I settled on the 15 gallon size. It is going in the bottom area of a large wardrobe cabinet and fits perfectly.

Prices for 15 gallon Rheem electric hot water heaters seemed very high. I saw prices as high as $750, with a low of about $650. I then did further research and discovered that Rheem also owns the Richmond brand of electric water heaters. In fact, the only difference between the two brands is their name badge on the tank. Otherwise, they are identical. See the two pictures below. Identical except for the name badge. The best price for Richmond was Home Depot. I picked it up online for $246 and that included free shipping to the house. So, with a little research, I saved between $400 and $500.

These brands are known for their extra insulation. However, I intend to place even more reflective insulation around the water heater to retain heat even longer.

Rheem Brand


Richmond Brand

[Laurel]

I love your flooring etc. We are hoping to take some of your ideas and use them in ours. The rubber flooring on the steps and drivers area will be great. Right now we are still removing grime. Wow! There is a lot.

[WolfyWho]

Thanks for your message, Greg. That's great that Crowns have been a long tradition in your family, and your daughter has taken a liking to them too. I hope to start the same tradition. Time will tell. I'm curious what your plans are for insulation in the sides of the bus. Is it even possible, considering the style of the windows?

Regards,
Wolfy

[WolfyWho]

I'm also interested in how much it cost to have the exterior of the bus painted (if you don't mind me asking).

Thanks again!

Wolfy

[gmarvel]

Hi Wolfy,

The complete prep, body work, and paint job (including using high quality auto primer, paint and clear coat) was $7,200. There is one bus on this site that cost about $16,000 to have painted. So, I think I got a great deal. I bow to those on this site that do their own prep and painting on their buses. I recognize my limitations (in terms of mechanical skills, patience for all the prep work, and time). I thought $7,200 was a fair and decent price for an excellent paint job that will endure the test of time. The paint job cost more than the bus!!! Plus, once the conversion is done, I intend to store the bus in a large enclosed warehouse near my house to keep it out of the elements. So, the paint job will stay nice for even a longer period. This indoor facility has you call 24 hours in advance and they will start it up, check it out, and even wash it in preparation for your arrival. When you return, they will again clean and wash the bus and then park it in your stall inside the high ceiling warehouse.

You asked about insulation on the side. We have completed that already. We used the reflective core foam panels (about 1.5" total thickness), plus used the closed cell spray foam around all the joints, seams and edges. No cold or hot air getting in that way!! The wood side panels are about to be put in. We are putting a final layer of closed cell foam insulation (the kind sandwiched between aluminum) on the interior sides of the bus before putting the wood side panels up. This stuff comes in rolls and is used by race car builders and classic car enthusiasts. I picked up a roll at less than 50% of the normal price. I figure it can't hurt and there was just enough room to squeeze this stuff in between the side railings.

With all the insulation we have done in the roof, sides and flooring, it is absolutely amazing the difference in sound, noise and rattle. It is the most quiet Crown Coach bus I have ever ridden in. One of the things I have learned on this site is that doing it right early always pays off in the end. Insulation, insulation, insulation is the key. The techniques that I have used have not reduced the headroom while still providing a large amount of insulating properties. The real test will be when we take the bus out in really cold or hot weather. I don't expect to be in 110 degree weather for hours and expect the bus to stay a cool 72 degrees. I am hoping that I can keep the extreme cold and heat at bay for as long as possible and then allow the air conditioning or heating to keep it within an appropriate comfort range. One of the conversion guys on this site told me his experiences with his bus conversion (not enough insulation and under powered AC) and how on a hot day with the AC going, he still could not get his interior under the mid 90's. That is a wakeup call to try and pay close attention to your insulation projects and your heating and cooling needs.

[WolfyWho]

Thanks for all that great info. I'd love to see some pictures of your insulation in the sides of the bus (under the windows), if you have some. I've never seen behind the stock interior side panels of a Crown. That's fantastic there's room behind there for insulation. I agree, insulation all the way! Insulate! Insulate! Insulate! And closed cell foam insulation is definitely what I'll use. I used closed cell foam insulation in my house and it's fantastic. I think you got a fantastic deal on your body prep/paint. Nice job!

Wolfy

Originally Posted by gmarvel

Hi Wolfy,

The complete prep, body work, and paint job (including using high quality auto primer, paint and clear coat) was $7,200. There is one bus on this site that cost about $16,000 to have painted. So, I think I got a great deal. I bow to those on this site that do their own prep and painting on their buses. I recognize my limitations (in terms of mechanical skills, patience for all the prep work, and time). I thought $7,200 was a fair and decent price for an excellent paint job that will endure the test of time. The paint job cost more than the bus!!! Plus, once the conversion is done, I intend to store the bus in a large enclosed warehouse near my house to keep it out of the elements. So, the paint job will stay nice for even a longer period. This indoor facility has you call 24 hours in advance and they will start it up, check it out, and even wash it in preparation for your arrival. When you return, they will again clean and wash the bus and then park it in your stall inside the high ceiling warehouse.

You asked about insulation on the side. We have completed that already. We used the reflective core foam panels (about 1.5" total thickness), plus used the closed cell spray foam around all the joints, seams and edges. No cold or hot air getting in that way!! The wood side panels are about to be put in. We are putting a final layer of closed cell foam insulation (the kind sandwiched between aluminum) on the interior sides of the bus before putting the wood side panels up. This stuff comes in rolls and is used by race car builders and classic car enthusiasts. I picked up a roll at less than 50% of the normal price. I figure it can't hurt and there was just enough room to squeeze this stuff in between the side railings.

With all the insulation we have done in the roof, sides and flooring, it is absolutely amazing the difference in sound, noise and rattle. It is the most quiet Crown Coach bus I have ever ridden in. One of the things I have learned on this site is that doing it right early always pays off in the end. Insulation, insulation, insulation is the key. The techniques that I have used have not reduced the headroom while still providing a large amount of insulating properties. The real test will be when we take the bus out in really cold or hot weather. I don't expect to be in 110 degree weather for hours and expect the bus to stay a cool 72 degrees. I am hoping that I can keep the extreme cold and heat at bay for as long as possible and then allow the air conditioning or heating to keep it within an appropriate comfort range. One of the conversion guys on this site told me his experiences with his bus conversion (not enough insulation and under powered AC) and how on a hot day with the AC going, he still could not get his interior under the mid 90's. That is a wakeup call to try and pay close attention to your insulation projects and your heating and cooling needs.

[gmarvel]

REAR VIEW MIRROR RENOVATED
We have not posted lately as there has just been a lot of grunt work in terms of making final decisions on the interior and then measuring. Did I mention measuring?? By the way, more measuring!!! Making really detailed measurements made us rethink some of our earlier decisions. More about that with a post later.

The inside rear view mirror was pretty beat up and shabby. So, we cleaned the glass thoroughly, repainted the mirror housing the semi-gloss black like the dash area and then redid the rubber around the mirror. It literally looks brand new. Donna and I decided early on that we wanted to keep the large rear view mirror. As former bus drivers, it just feels good to see what is behind you in the coach, even if it isn't 78 sweet angels riding to school.

All the plastic sheeting is up to protect the headliner as we start putting in cabinets, furniture and walls.

[Stu & Filo. T]

And how are we coming along on the new Project??

[gmarvel]

The new bus is still getting a looking over by one of my clients in Southern California. I told them to check it out top to bottom mechanically and fix whatever needed to be fixed, replace whatever needed to be replaced. I want it to be as perfect mechanically as it can be before I drive it up to Northern California. This district still has a large fleet of Crowns, including tandems, so they are experienced at working on these ten wheelers. We are already trying to make some decisions on paint jobs, interior design, etc. Still early. When I am ready, we will start a new thread on the forum on this latest conversion effort.

How is your roof raise coming? Are the crops in so you can get back to your real job of converting your Crown?

[gmarvel]

NEW DRIVER'S CHAIR INSTALLED

We got around to installing a new driver's chair. It is a De Leon Captain's chair from Seatcraft. These are designed for Class A motorhomes. This comes with an air ride feature and includes lumbar support, etc. We decided to splurge on the seat since there is nothing worse than fatigue and a painful back from a hard and bouncing bus seat. It has extra support and padding. When I sat in it I was amazed how comfortable it felt. This particular model had great reviews. We have the same seat for the Navigator's chair. That is still not in yet as we are figuring out the platform it will go on since it will be partially over the passenger side front wheel well. Seat belts for the chairs have been ordered. Strangely, they don't come with the chairs, but are an extra. We also had professionals look at the placement of the chairs to make sure they were going to be properly placed and bolted for safety concerns in the event of an accident. You can see the first black 12 volt fan installation. One more to go on the bulkhead above the middle of the windshield.

[gmarvel]

PERSONALIZED PLATES

California has a personalized license plate program. We decided to get one for the bus. I picked it up at the DMV yesterday and put it on the bus this afternoon.

[gmarvel]

WATER PUMPS

Did a great deal of research on water pumps. After reading hundreds (literally) of reviews and user feedbacks, I came to the conclusion that cheap water pumps usually mean loud and leaky water pumps. I went with what the reviewers and users said was the best water pump out there for RV's. It is the Sensor VSD Pump 4.5 gpm. I got mine on sale at Camping World through an Internet sale. They say it is very reliable and very quite. I picked it up today.

The link to Camping World for this pump is:

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... -gpm/21397

The Pump is Below

[gmarvel]

BUNCH OF PROJECTS STARTING THIS WEEK

No pictures yet on these projects. However, a great deal is planned for this week. Our massively busy season helping our many school district clients start their school year is over. We can get back to concentrating on the bus.

Window Tinting
I never had so much trouble finding someone who wanted to tint windows. It took a month from the first missed appointment with the first installer to today when a tinting guy actually showed up (three others with appointments never showed up, called, nothing, nada, zero). We went with the 3M Crystalline Film. Reviews say it is the best on the market. In order to get the lifetime guarantee on install and material, it cannot be self-installed or done by a non-certified tinter. I guess that is why it took so long to find one that would actually do an entire bus. They are rare!!

I don't have pictures yet. That will happen next week and I will post.

The 3M web page that talks about this tinting product can be found below:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... ive-Films/

We were waiting for the tinting to get finished so we could start on the walls and side panels for the bus. That is also starting this week.

Radio Enclosure
We decided to have a metal dash like enclosure made for the touchscreen 7" radio/gps unit and put to the right of the main instrument cluster. I sat in the driver's chair and tried to reach the radio down in the area where the Crown's original radio went. It was not only difficult to reach, but in my opinion, down right dangerous to lean over like that. Plus, don't even try to use the touchscreen accurately when you are having to reach down so far away. I found a guy that would do it fairly cheaply. That should be done by the end of this coming week.

Inside Engine Hatch Recessed Handles
Mid-engine Crowns (that means about 98% of all Crowns made) have an interior engine hatch that you need to access from time to time for maintenance purposes. An earlier post showed how we put new laminate flooring on the engine hatch. However, the hatch does have to close securely. We found recessed engine hatch handles that will clamp the hatch down tightly. That installation should be completed by next week. One is already finished and the other side should be finished in a few days.

Driver Fans
The driver fans are being installed this week. One above and next to the driver and one above the middle of the dash area. These fans not only keep the driver cooler, but are essential in Crowns for defrosting purposes. Crowns are notorious for crappy defrosting capabilities. When I was a driver with 97 students on board my tandem Crown, I could not keep the front windows clear on a cold or rainy day. Don't even get me started about the football team with steam literally coming off of their bodies as they got on the bus and trying to keep the front window clear so I could drive. I kept a towel in the front compartment of the bus and would hand it to a coach as he stood in the wheel well and wiped down the right side front windshield as we drove down the road. To be fair, this was a 1968 Crown we are talking about. My 1988 Crown may do better and I certainly am not going to have 97 bodies riding behind me. So, the defrost problem may not be a real issue. Time will tell. The right side fan can either be pointed at the driver or pointed at the right windshield to help with defrosting.

I got these fans on sale at a Flying J truck stop. They are black, matching the color of the dash, are 12 volt and have two speeds. I am attaching them to the original fan switch on the Crown dash.

New Instrument Gauges
I am carefully taking the front instrument cluster off the dash so I can take it to the local Stewart Warner to get new SW Heavy Duty gauges installed. I decided that it was easier to take it into the dealer so he could accurately determine which gauges to install to replace the old mixture of ones we currently have. An example of the style gauges we are getting is below:

[bansil]

great updates

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by gmarvel

The new bus is still getting a looking over by one of my clients in Southern California. I told them to check it out top to bottom mechanically and fix whatever needed to be fixed, replace whatever needed to be replaced. I want it to be as perfect mechanically as it can be before I drive it up to Northern California. This district still has a large fleet of Crowns, including tandems, so they are experienced at working on these ten wheelers. We are already trying to make some decisions on paint jobs, interior design, etc. Still early. When I am ready, we will start a new thread on the forum on this latest conversion effort.

How is your roof raise coming? Are the crops in so you can get back to your real job of converting your Crown?

I haven't worked on mine in a couple months, had to step back & work on the house some, wife had some of her family coming from back east so I had to put in new doors do some trim work plus I've been helping a friend raise a barn that started collapsing about 10 yrs ago but he has a son that wants to get married in it this October so I've been helping with that, I'm making this weekend a 3 day'r so hopefully can get some done this weekend,

Oh the buddy with the barn says I can turn it into a paint booth after the wedding