Journey Begins - 1988 Crown Conversion

[gmarvel]

MASCERATING PUMP FOR BUS
We purchased a mascerating toilet from Thetford and that has already been installed in the bus. We are now at the point where our FMCC (Fecal Matter Control Center) is being built. There is a large compartment on the driver side of the bus near the rear axle that once housed the huge 8D batteries. We replaced those with small but more efficient AGM batteries. This has left a large area that is being converted into our sewage and water hookup area.

We decided to go with a pump for the black and gray water tanks that includes a mascerating function. We will not know exactly where we might need to dump our sewage and we wanted a device that could pump both uphill as well as long distance. We also wanted something that will take the already slurry composition of our black water waste and make it even finer. That way we could use a 1" flexible collapsible hose instead of the massive 3" sewage hoses common with most RV's. The 1" hose takes up a tiny fraction of the room that a standard 3" RV hose uses.

We decided on a Thetford Sani-con macerating system (Model number 70224). This model screws directly onto the sewage outlet for the RV and is a permanent install. They have another model that allows for a 90 degree bend when installing it. In our case we went with a straight connection. It also has a gray water bypass so you can set your gray water up to be constantly dumping into the RV site's sewage connect rather than building up in the tank. This allows the gray water to trickle out without having to turn on the pump.

This system will allow you to dump your waste up to 25' uphill and up to 150 feet away from the RV. It is very powerful.

It has great reviews.

I have seen prices as high as over $400 on this unit. Camping World has it on sale for $349.97. I got it at americanrvcompany.com for $315.93.

It comes with everything, including electrical, so you don't need to buy additional parts. Just screw it on to your sewage outlet and 12 volt electrical and you are ready to go!

[taskswap]

Would love a review on this unit when you get it in and use it. We're looking at exactly the same model. One benefit to these units is being able to dump at a house. Most houses have washing machines that have hang-over hoses that dump straight into an open hole. These things can go right in there, if the homeowner (you, a relative, etc.) doesn't mind.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by gmarvel

You are absolutely right. My overhead lights that took the place of the school bus red crossing lights have swivel hoods that can be dropped down in front of the lights if required by law in that state.

Greg did you find these somewhere or did you have the original's modified ,,

Stuart

P.S.I must apologize I keep meaning to call you but time passes

[gmarvel]

Hi Taskswap,

I read a bunch of reviews on the web about this model. They were all good. I figure with my mascerating toilet first breaking down the "solids" and then going through a mascerating pump at the waste water outlet in my FMCC (Fecal Matter Control Center), I should get nothing but liquid going through that small 1" collapsible hose.

I will be more than happy to post my results after a real test run!!

[gmarvel]

Hi Allwthrrider,

Time slips by a great deal when you are working full time and trying to do a bus conversion. Time becomes a scarce commodity.

This 1988 Crown was originally built for a contractor in San Diego (Goodall's). A transportation director at one of my client school districts was the guy that ordered it when he worked for Goodall's. He really liked the bus. So, 25 years later when I bought the bus from the next transportation operation that owned it, I had this director have his mechanics check it out. He said it was in great shape. Because it was originally built for a contractor, the bus came with the swivel black hoods to cover the red school bus lights when it was being used on a non-school run. Under California law, a school bus is required to cover its red lights when not on a home-to-school run or activity trip. School districts usually use tape to black out their red lights and then a fiberglass panel that covers up the School Bus signage. Some districts ignore the law entirely and never cover up their lights or school bus signs. Contractors would get in real trouble if they ignored the rule, so that is why Crowns originally built for contractors used these swivel light hoods.

[WolfyWho]

Hi Greg,

Just now catching up on your thread. I had subscribed to it, but for some reason I'm not getting the email notifications. Thanks so much for posting pictures of your custom trailer hitch installation. That's really helpful. Your pictures reminded me of this post (see below) of the inside of your rear compartment. Are the beams in the floor of the storage compartment connected to the trailer hitch beams below the compartment? Looks like they're at about the same width apart.

Regards,
Wolfy

Originally Posted by gmarvel

Rear Trunk Area Primed and Ready for Lizard Skin Coating

The trunk area of a Crown is massive. It was used (at least by me when I drove them) for band equipment, sleeping bags and backpacks for camping runs, etc. It makes up for the lack of storage on the sides due to the mid-ship engine under the bus.

We have cleaned the trunk thoroughly, removed any rust spots, and primed it. We are going to use a special coating called Lizardskin to insulate and deaden the sound getting into the cabin of the bus. We found a dealer that gave us a substantial discount on the material.

The Lizardskin is a spray on two part process. The first layer is an acoustical spray. You spray it on to a depth of 0.04 inches. Wait 24 hours and then spray on the thermal insulation to a similar depth. Think of this like a truck bed liner on steroids designed to reduce thermal transfer and noise. Classic and hotrod car buffs use this stuff. I did substantial research on this product and determined that it is the best. I am also going to use this product to coat the floor of the bus before putting my new wood flooring down. I was originally thinking of doing some sort of spray foam under the bus. What a nightmare. It is like a maze under there. By spraying this inside the bus on the floor, I can get a complete insulation package rather than the spotty coverage I would have under the bus. I also get the added benefit of not losing very much headroom.

I had them spray a large sheet of thin metal with this stuff and then tested it out. With a flame hitting the other side of the metal I could still put my hand on the non-coated side of the metal and leave it there for some time. I then went to see completed projects that had used this product and was amazed at the sound deadening capacity. Road noise should be substantially reduced.

We are actually going to have this spray used in the engine compartment, the generator compartment and under the wheel wells to also reduce noise and heat getting into the cabin of the bus.

The web site for this product is:

Ceramic Insulation - Sound Control Insulation Products | LizardSkin

I will let you all know how it goes. A picture of the massive trunk area is below:

[WolfyWho]

Oops, nevermind about my last question. I see that you've already shown pictures of that (in response to one of my questions) describing that the beams went through the compartment. It's been too long since I've been through your thread. Need to start over from the beginning again!

Your build is looking awesome! You must be so proud.

Regards,
Wolfy

Originally Posted by gmarvel

Hi WolfyWho,

TRAILER HITCH
Crown frames do not go all the way back to the rear bumper. The rear trunk area is designed as a crumple zone to absorb the impact of a rear end collision. This helps protect the occupants by having the rear area absorb the force of the impact. The frame itself is near the rear wheels. So, there is a significant length between the frame and the rear bumper where the trailer hitch goes. We did a lot of thinking about this before we came up with the solution. We welded beams to the rear of the frame and brought it backwards to the rear bumper. The hitch is attached to this beam structure. I am told by the guys that did it that it could actually haul a load of up to 20,000 pounds. I have no intention of pulling a tow vehicle or trailer with that kind of weight. However, I always believe over-engineering is best. It kind of goes along with the whole Crown concept, since they were also over-engineered and built to last for many decades. You will note in the picture below that the beams were actually run through the bottom of the rear trunk area. That was necessary so that the hitch could be properly attached to the bottom of the rear bumper. I don't know if we will use the hitch that much, but I figured the time to do it was now, not as an after thought. I know that we might have a need to bring along one of our cars or SUV's and I wanted a hitch that could handle pulling a Suburban if need be. I don't have any pictures of the actual attachments on the frame. However, I can get those when the bus is up on a lift and I can then post them.












CEILING VENT FAN FOR THE SHOWER
This story is a pain to tell. The measurements were taken and taken and taken again before the hole was cut in the roof for the really nice exhaust fan. When the stainless steel shower was placed in the bus, the hole was off by about two inches (we were planning to cut a hole in the top portion of the shower ceiling to expose the fan hole and assembly. However, because of this measuring screw up, the fan was off by a few inches. One answer was to move the shower forward the necessary few inches. However, that had a domino impact on that whole side of the bus (driver's side). The sofa, dinette, stove cabinet and sink cabinet all were impacted and we did not have room forward of the shower to spare in our layout. So, basically we were screwed. We made the difficult decision to move the fan over to the other side of the bus and it will now be over the toilet/sink area opposite the shower. This necessitates covering up the hole, and repainting that area. What a royal pain. Lesson learned.

RUBBER FLOORING AND LIZARD SKIN INSULATION
We tested the Lizard Skin on a portion of the rubber floor and it adhered fine. We tested it with open flame on it and it handled it perfectly. Based on that test, we installed the Lizard Skin insulation over the rubber flooring. Fellow skoolies need to understand that Crowns are made differently than any other bus. The stories on this site of rubber flooring being pulled up and finding a sea of rusted floor underneath the rubber is not something you will see in a Crown. Crown floors are made with heavy duty and think marine grade plywood laid on top of metal floor beams. This eliminates the rusting problem found in many other buses. Crowns that are over 40 years old still have excellent floors. That is why we decided not to pull up the existing rubber flooring as there was really no need. The Lizard Skin acoustical/thermal insulation was sprayed right over the rubber flooring. The difference was dramatic, both in sound and heat penetration into the bus. When we took the bus out on the road after the insulation was sprayed onto the floor, it was the quietest Crown I have ever driven. There is a reason that race cars and hot rods use this stuff. It truly works.

By the way, we also sprayed the Lizard Skin insulation in the trunk area before laying down the new rubber flooring in the trunk. The spray insulation went on all sides of the trunk, including the ceiling (the opposite side of the trunk ceiling is the inside of the rear of the bus where our bedroom is going). We also sprayed the underside of the wheel wells, the underside of the step well, and the engine compartment, all for the purpose of reducing the intrusion of noise and temperature into the interior of the bus.

[gmarvel]

It is all structurally connected. We had an engineer check everything out before we went forward. As one forum member noted, if you connect a commented, we don't want our bumper and the rear trunk area to get detached and fall out on the road. I was told that this setup we constructed could tow 20,000 pounds. We have no intention of towing that much, no more than 10,000 pounds. In California (and probably other states), you need a Class A commercial license if you are going to tow something over 10,000 pounds.

[gmarvel]

CROWN AIR BAG REPLACEMENTS
I was checking out the rear air bags in the Crown and discovered that mine had cracks near the bottom of the bags. They are not leaking yet, but it is just a matter of time.

So, I started the odyssey of trying to find replacements. Of course, with buses built in the 1980's I did not expect to have a ready supply at parts houses.

For those skoolie members that have Crowns and air bags, mine are:

Firestone Suspension Air Bags
Model #W01-358-9432

No one carries that particular model in stock. You have to special order them from a Heavy Truck/Bus dealer that carries Firestone. The good news for all those Crown owners out there is that I found a supplier that can order them directly from Firestone. Firestone still makes them, but on an individual order basis. The only manufacturer that used that particular air bag suspension model was Crown. For some "strange" reason, Crown has not been ordering any air bags since they were closed by GE back in 1991. So, Firestone discontinued making them a number of years ago, but kept all the specifications so they could be made on an as needed basis. Firestone promises them within four to six weeks from order date.

The vendor is:

Michigan Truck Spring
Website: www.truckspring.com
Phone: 1(800)358-4751
Contact: Ryan

I am paying $268 for each air bag, but I am getting perfectly matched new air bags that should last me for 25+ years.

[Ryan_jorgensen]

Joined Skoolie.net about a week ago and have been reading your conversion thread like a book I can't put down. Love the conversion... particularly the quality and attention to detail - such a gem. I live nearby, so I'll keep an eye out for you on the road!

You've inspired me to start looking for my own project and wonder if you could help point me in the right direction on two topics you mention in your thread: (1) anything you hear about when crown buses might be available from school districts and (2) resources to inspect a bus when purchasing.

Thanks and enjoy your Crown!

[gmarvel]

No problem. Walnut Creek is about 10 or 15 minutes away. You may see me in my Crown when it is finished. We could schedule a visit so you could see what I have done first hand. I am hoping to have it finished in about another four or five weeks. We have a few big projects to complete like finishing the plumbing to the Fecal Matter Control Center (FMCC). It is the little things like side LED lights in the bathroom overhead cabinet door so the women can do their thing with makeup, etc. Can't be too bright or too dim, but just right!!! The counter tops are being fabricated offsite and are due to be installed on Tuesday. The front marine grade white speakers were on back order, but are due to arrive this week. Two more holes in the front bulkhead above the front windshield. Scary but necessary if you want music. Most of the electrical testing is finished and passed inspection, so walls are getting finished up. Again, it is the little stuff.

Concerning your two questions:

1) Be on the lookout for Crowns.

I just talked to one of my clients and they will be replacing five or six Crowns. This school district is not getting any grants which would require them to be crushed. So, I am hoping that they will be put up on the open market. I believe five are 1980 Crowns (could be 35' or 36'), and one is a 1990 Crown. As soon as I know more I will let you know.

Send me a personal message so we can exchange email addresses and contact information.

2) Resources to inspect a bus when purchasing.

A lot of times school districts sell their buses via on-line auction houses. Most times that will preclude being able to take the bus to a mechanic to have it inspected. Private sellers should not be a problem. It is these on-line auction houses that cater to public agencies that can be a pain. However, keep in mind that you might be able to physically inspect the buses at the location where they are stored, like their District yard or the auction firms vehicle lot. You could bring an experienced heavy duty diesel mechanic (hopefully one that has worked on Crowns) to inspect the vehicle.

Keep in mind that buses this old will have mechanical issues. Some will be minor, while others could be major like a shot engine. Since most of the Crowns that come on the market were used as school buses, they will probably be in pretty good shape or the Highway Patrol would not have allowed them to operate. For buses this old you can count on original bushings needing to be replaced (not overly costly as a part expense, but the labor can get pricey). The same with original suspension air bags. Air bags on Crowns were extra cost options. The older Crowns generally never have them, while the newer ones probably will have them, but are in need of replacement. Radiators in Crowns are huge. Original radiators will probably need to be reconditioned. It is money well spent as you don't want your expense diesel engine to get damaged because of overheating.

Many of the older Crowns have rebuilt engines. Hopefully, you can find out when the rebuilt was done. A recent in-frame rebuilt would be a great find. These diesels are designed to go a million miles. However, in-frame rebuilts are not unusual after 300,000 miles or so. It all depends on how well they were maintained.

Rust is generally not a problem in Crowns. First, the California environment is very easy on schools buses (generally no road salt and overly wet weather). Second, they are designed to minimize rust problems (aluminum skins, etc.).

If you are serious about getting a Crown and you have the opportunity to have one inspected, I can put you in touch with experienced Crown mechanics that you could pay to inspect the vehicle for you and give you an assessment of the condition.

I also have numerous school districts that will work on Crowns for a fee. They set you up as an outside customer and will then charge you an hourly rate (depending on the school district usually between $55 and $85 per hour) that is well below standard market rates. In the San Francisco Bay Area, heavy duty truck and bus shops are charging $120 to $150 per hour in the private sector.

I hope this is helpful. Thank you for your kind words about my conversion. We have learned much about how to do a conversion. Our next Crown (our tandem) will go much faster and we will not make some of the same mistakes and do overs that we did with the first one.

Again, don't forget to PM me so we can exchange contact information.

[Chuck Galyean]

Are All Crown's available with such classic and classy, 'bug' looks? One look and wow, in love and impressed!

Newbies,

Anndru & Chuck

[gmarvel]

Crowns from the late 1940's on had the classic art deco rounded look. Then in the late 1980's they came out with the Super Coach II, which had a more modern squared off look. They sold both of these models side-by-side until they shut down in 1991. Even after the more "modern" look came out with the Super Coach II, most school districts still purchased the classic looking original coach style. I tend to be "overly" enthusiastic about Crowns (just ask some of the Blue Bird lovers on this site). Crowns were made to last 50 years. They were the only school bus that had a 20 year warranty. The oldest school bus in California retired last year, and it was a 1949 Crown. No other school bus manufacturer comes close in terms of the quality and longevity of Crowns. Unfortunately, GE bought them out in the 1980's and then shut them down because they were not financially performing up to the corporate return on investment standards that GE had at the time. You can spot a classic Crown from a mile away. Its unique signature look tells you it is special.

If you are in the market for a Crown to use for a conversion, the best place to look is California. Ebay, Craig's List, etc.

[Chuck Galyean]

Thank you so much for your response--I'm all kinds for happy! Heading to Craig's list and if we find one, from here to there isn't that far.

Anndru & Chuck

[gmarvel]

Send me a private message and I can let you know when I become aware of Crowns becoming available. There are two batches of Crowns that I am aware of that may be coming up soon. I will not go into details publicly. I have another skoolie member who is also looking for Crowns so I can keep both of you in the loop.

[gmarvel]

NEW INTERIOR SHOTS OF THE CROWN

More work has gotten done.

Back Bedroom Reading Lights
The back bedroom area now has the reading lights in. These are LED 12 volt lights. As you can see they sit on top of a flexible goose neck. There is one for each side of the bed.


Went With the Black Trimmed LED Dimmer Switches
We were deciding between the black trim backlit LED dimmer switches or the brushed nickle trim. We decided to go with the black trim. There will be a master switch and then five different switches to cover each side of the under cabinet lights, the center lights running down the center, the bathroom area lights and the rear bedroom area lights. All will be hooked up to these dimmer switches.


UPPER CABINET DOORS ARE IN PLACE
The upper cabinet doors have been installed. There are two doors with frosted glass fronts in the kitchen area, and the rest are solid wood European Birch with a cherry stain, like the rest of the wood in the bus. All of the lighting under the cabinets are installed.

Driver Side Cabinets




Passenger Side Cabinets




Upper Kitchen Cabinet Fronts


Shot Towards the Front


Shot Towards the Back


Piston Style Cabinet Door Hardware
We looked all over at hardware stores to find just the right piston style hardware to hold up the upper cabinet doors. We noticed that a lot of Class A motor homes have upper cabinet doors that you have to hold up with one of your arms in order to get to stuff. It seemed better to us to have hardware that would hold it up for us. So, we found the piston-style that you see below. The shorter upper cabinets have one piston, while the longer upper cabinets have one on each side. When you raise the cabinet door, it stays up. When you lower it by about one inch the piston takes over and gradually drops the cabinet door back into its closed position.


Tomorrow the counter tops arrive and will be installed. Things are moving along. Exciting to be nearing the finish line. I am predicting another four weeks of on and off activity to finally claim we are over (if you ever can be with this kind of project). However, I have blown through prior deadlines like this before like a hot knife through butter. So, who knows!!!

[Tango]

Outstanding workmanship guys! --- Very professional and good looking to boot!

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by gmarvel

Send me a private message and I can let you know when I become aware of Crowns becoming available. There are two batches of Crowns that I am aware of that may be coming up soon. I will not go into details publicly. I have another skoolie member who is also looking for Crowns so I can keep both of you in the loop.

Yesterday while passing thru Sacramento at the Longview exit northside I saw a school bus yard that had a Crown parked next to the fence, I don't know if you work with that School District or not

[gmarvel]

That is San Juan Unified School District's Transportation Department. I know the Director and will ask her about that Crown.

[gmarvel]

COUNTER TOPS ARE INSTALLED

This is exciting. The counter tops are installed. Pictures are below. We originally were going to go with 1/2" granite. However, no one we could find carries 1/2" granite as a stock item. We would have to have it cut down from the standard 3/4" granite slab. The cost was equal to the debt of a small nation and we decided to go in another direction.

We selected the ECO brand of solid counter tops. This is a recycled product that combines recycled glass, earthenware, porcelain, mirrors and vitrified ash. At least 75% of the slab is recycled material and has a hard surface that is easily cleaned with soap and water. It is highly resistant to impact, chemical products, scratches and stains.

Fireplace/TV Cabinet Counter Top
The counter top is fixed in the front. The rear will be the European Birch wood you have seen with the rest of the cabinets and will be attached to the rear of the cabinet via a piano hinge style setup. That way, when the TV rises out of the cabinet it will just lift the rear counter top area up and out of the way with the hinge feature. We had two drink holder holes drilled in the slab. The holders are brushed stainless steel designed for the marine environment.




Kitchen Counter Top
The counter top is one slab covering two base cabinets. We originally were going to have an induction cooktop installed in the slab and then were advised not to do it as the slab would have too many massive holes in it. The installers were worried that it might crack. So, the area to the left of the sink will have a portable induction cooktop that we will pull out of the drawer and use when needed. The rest of the time it will be open and available for other uses. Actually, this is probably a better setup than the original plan.

The sink is a brushed stainless steel model and matches the kitchen faucet which has a pull out spray head. We hunted around a great deal to find this particular type of faucet. Most kitchen faucets are too large for a small RV kitchen area. This is a small version that works perfectly in the scaled down kitchen area of the bus. It is actually listed as a bar sink faucet.

There are lots of lights under the kitchen cabinets for the prep area.







BATHROOM COUNTER TOP
You can see a theme here. We went with the same counter tops for all three areas. The bathroom sink is small but deep and again carries over the brushed stainless steel look from the kitchen area.