Lindy's Hillside Hide Away

[lindy]

Hello! I am looking to buy a school bus to convert into a home, but I do not have the intention of moving the bus once I put it into place. I figure I can get a bus really cheap if I am not worried about it running. Since it will be my house, I am looking for a full sized.

My question is what do I look for in buying a bus? Any ideas on how to tell how sound the body is so that it will (hopefully) last me for 20-30-40 years as a home?

My main concern is rust/dry rot etc. And I know that there is most likely no way to tell what condition the floor is in until I get it home and tear the floor out to the metal. Do most buses have the rubber/plywood/metal floors? Can I tell by crawling around under the bus how much damage there is? If it is repairable then I don't mind, but I have been stuck with a lemon before (the travel trailer I am currently living in had dry rot under the sinks and tub) so I am a bit weary of what cannot be seen.

thanks!

[Les Lampman]

First of all...welcome!

Secondly...it would be helpful to know what part of the country you're in; it's easier to make recommendations of places folks know about that way.

Typically it's going to make a lot of difference in the condition of the bus based on where the bus has been running, especially with regard to rust and such. Northern and Northeast buses typically have more rust than say, southwest buses. Blue Birds use a lot of galvanized steel and my '79 BB is in outstanding condition with no rust; it came from the Denver area. I just bought an '82 Thomas flat-nose bus here in Washington and it too is in very good condition. So far I haven't found any rust.

Most school bus floors are sheetmetal base, plywood and rubber topping but I've heard of exceptions.

A flat-nose bus will give you the most interior space for the overall length but (in general) will tend to cost more upfront.

Have you thought about a shipping container? 40' to 53' long, 102" wide, plenty of headroom and no wasted space for things like the engine, wheel wheels, and such.

[wmah]

You could even consider a 48 or 53 foot fifth wheel trailer.

[Elliot Naess]

My Blue Birds both came from Oregon and are spectacularly rust free.

On the first one, however, the plywood floor was rotten under the
linoleum. I discovered this while I removed the seats, because my
knees sank into the "nice soft" floor!

[lindy]

thank you all for the replies.

how can I check the bus to see what kind of shape the bus is in?

I am in the northwest so it is good to know that there are good buses to be found.

I would consider a fifthwheel, but I have done the travel trailer route for over 10 years and I really want wood heat and something more durable in the long run. I have also considered a shipping container but I need to have a project that I will be able to do for the most part myself. With the shipping container I would have to get someone to put the windows in, and that would not do. Besides I do not have the $$ to get one in put in place. Buses are easier to move and I can put a woodstove in one! I know I could put one in a travel trailer, but the one I am living in now, the roof is shot and is covered with tarps... not a great idea. I also like the idea of making my own floor plan vs one that is laid out for me all ready, as in trailers.

[Les Lampman]

Since you're not planning on driving, gas-powered and propane-powered buses usually sell for much less than diesel buses. And, conventional (dog-nose) buses typically sell for less than flat nose (transit style) buses. You'll get the most room out of a flat nose bus though, especially if you don't need to maintain the driving station. For the most space I'd look for a flat nose front engine bus (usually cheaper than a rear engine bus) and you can either use the engine cover as a table base or if you pull the engine and sell it you can take the engine cover out altogether and have a flat floor from the entry way to the tail end. With a front engine bus you won't have to deal with the engine housing in the back and you'll have a door there if you want it.

There are lots of deals out and about so you just have to keep looking. I'd say up here in the Northwest you'll do well to look under the bus at the frame and running gear (as well as the body), if that looks good and the inside doesn't have telltale signs of leaking you're probably good to go since it isn't a harsh environment. You can look up in the wheel well area too since everything off the road seems to land in there and start the rusting process. Look under the hood (even though you don't care about the running situation), if it looks like heck I'd wonder about the rest of the bus; a look under the hood usually gives a good indication about how the bus was taken care of (but obviously, not always).

The floors are usually a base of sheet metal, a plywood floor and a rubber overlay. Look for soft spots, especially around the wheel wells, where bus heater were installed, and around the edges. Take an ice pick with you and do a little prodding; you don't have to attack the bus just gently press the point in suspect locations...if the wood is rotted it will hardly take any pressure at all to penetrate the wood.

[Elliot Naess]

Lindy:

Some months ago, an acquaintance of mine in the Portland, Oregon, area had
a 1977 International/Carpenter that had been used as a church bus. I don't
know how long it was. It still ran. Gasser and auto. If they still have it, the price
would be 500 or less. Want me to check?

[the_experience03]

I'll let you in on a little trick we northerners use to check our vehicles since Minnesota salts their roads like a basket of fries at Rotten Ronnie's. Take a ball peen hammer, some dirty clothes, goggles, ear plugs, and a magnet with you.

1. Check for chassis rust....this stuff is serious. Climb under the bust with the hammer, goggles, earplugs, and the dirty clothes on. Wind up and smack the living dogsnot out of the frame. You won't hurt it if it's good. Take a few seconds and look up and down the length of the bus to see what you knocked off. Is it a lot of caked on dirt? Is it rust? Is it flaking metal? All those are bad! I'd do this every few feet along both frame rails taking time to look at everything else under there. The seller shouldn't care if they're confident in what they're selling.

2. Check for body rust. This stuff is sneaky. Obviously you'll want to walk around and just look for obvious paint bubbles and surface rust. While it can be taken care of easily, surface rust should be taken seriously. As Mr. Neil Young taught us, rust never sleeps. Now take the magnet, and run it all over on the sheet metal, especially around the wheel wells. It will expose any places where they may have used body filler as part of a repair. It will also help expose places with thinning steel under them. Any place where it doesn't stick like it should is questionable.

I hope that helps a little anyway. I know it saved me from buying a bad parts truck when my hammer went through the web of the frame.

[Elliot Naess]

Now I remember why I left Detroit!

I would tell any friend in the rusty areas to travel out here to buy used vehicles.
It's worth it, and you get a nice vacation. I just parted out a 1971 Ford pickup --
only detectable rust was the battery tray.

[the_experience03]

Funny cause I just replaced the rusted out battery tray on a 2001 Ford pickup today.

[lindy]

Thank you all so much for your replies and answers.
I am taking notes! And I will certainly check for rust when I
start looking for my bus.

I appreciate everyone who posts to my thread.

Right now things are very soggy here in the Pacific Northwest and I do not have any hopes of getting a bus in here until April, most likely May. I am saving up money and collecting building supplies in the mean time!

I have collected three hollow core doors for "pocket doors" in my bus. I am putting one between the driver's area and hanging two somewhere at the back, together (double doors). I have a lot of old hardwood flooring that I have saved for years and also a wood stove (it is actually a trash burner) for my woodstove. I am partial to it because it has a "cook top" with the lids to lift to cook on.

I have also aquired a pallet of concrete blocks (three blocks high) to get my bus off of its tires and level it up, not to mention the blocks I have had before (can't have too many )

I have an old camper that I got for free on Craig's List plus a small trailer that I can scavenge for kitchenette. I am not sure if the frige will work, but I can certainly scrounge a complete kitchen out of what is there and then turn around and sell the siding for scrap.

I also have barn board at my disposal and some rather dark colored panneling. I am not into painted panneling, but when one is frugal they have to make do with what is free. I am asking around for plywood just incase I have to replace the subfloor on the bus.

Whew! When spring comes I will be a busy woman!

Thanks for the support!

Lindy

[lindy]

I hope that helps a little anyway. I know it saved me from buying a bad parts truck when my hammer went through the web of the frame.

I'm glad you looked!

thank you very much for your input!
I will certainly do this

Lindy

[GoneCamping]

Online auctions are a good place to look for buses too. I almost bought a city transit bus instead of the school bus (Gillig Phantom) as it was longer and wider. I didn't win that auction though and wound up with the Thomas Skoole, very happy with what I got. Eaby or publicsurplus.com are good places to look, but you gotta be careful on there, and unless you only bid on local stuff, there is no way to check it out first.

[the_experience03]

It's too bad about that Phantom though. Duluth runs Gillig Phantoms and Low Floors exclusively. Well...that and they do have a Gillig trolley.

Glad to hear you're meeting with some success, Lindy. It will be nice to have some stuff ready to go once you get the bus. That will keep you busy!

[lindy]

It is an 87 international model# 835.

I have a question in regard to the side walls. I have seen conversions on the web where the walls were taken out and others that just built on top of them. What are the pros and cons besides more work ha ha ha. I was thinking that *more* space between me and the elements was better , you know the thicker the walls???? I am really interested in hearing what you guys have to say

I have also seen some conversions lay down black plastic as a vapor barrier and others that have not. I would like to hear from some that chose not to do it and wonder about condensation

Right now I am concentrating on taking out the two seats in the bus, the two thingies that go between the first seats and the front of the bus, and taking up the floor to see what I got under there. That should keep me out of trouble for a while. Oh, if anyone would care to tell me *smile* what those thingies are actually called I would appreciate it! Ha

I love the angle grinder by the way! I just need to get a cutting blade for it tomorrow so I can get the bolts on the seats cut off.

Thanks guys!
Lindy

[the_experience03]

Originally Posted by lindy

It is an 87 international model# 835.


I have also seen some conversions lay down black plastic as a vapor barrier and others that have not. I would like to hear from some that chose not to do it and wonder about condensation

Right now I am concentrating on taking out the two seats in the bus, the two thingies that go between the first seats and the front of the bus, and taking up the floor to see what I got under there.

Thanks guys!
Lindy

I left my walls as is with the exception of a wire chase that runs along each side where the seat rail on the wall is. For my summer travels I just felt no need to do more with the walls. I think it goes without saying that the more time you plan to spend in the bus, the more time you will generally put into tearing it down and building it back up. The exception, of course, is Elliot who is spending an awful lot of time making one heck of a bus for a few Kinetic Sculpture races per year.

I did fully do my floor including the vapor barrier. My take on it was it was too easy and too cheap not to put the vapor barrier down.

Those front seat crash barriers are something else, eh? I never did figure out how they were installed at the factory on my bus. The bolts were inside the thing. The only way I could see it being done was for the plate to be installed on the floor and then everything welded to it. I just ground as much as I could and then football charged it (I was a lineman). Hopefully you will have better luck!

[GoneCamping]

Those crash barriers were the easiest thing in my bus to remove....simple lag bolts down into the floor....not even any nuts on the other side... those things were the ONLY easy thing to come off my bus!!

[eggman]

For vapor barrier, I used 30# roofing felt. I figured if it was good enough to use on a roof, its good enough for my skoolie floor.

[lindy]

Hi Guys I'm back.
Well, I have all the seats removed and the collision barriers.

Now I am attempting to pull up the plywood sub floor. And I am having an unbelieveable hard time. It seems that the nails are rusted to the floor pan and for the life of me I cannot get them to pull up. I tried using my grinder. That only caused the plywood to turn to charcoal and made me worry about catching the bus on fire

Any ideas?

Can I just leave it as is and start the conversion process?

I am just afraid all the untreated rust "not sleeping" will cause me to not sleep.

I know, some wacky woman buys a bus and wants to convert it, but it is just that I am a single woman and I want to know that I have a secure, safe place to live for the next 20 or so years. Or until I get it together enough to acutualy build a home that does not have wheels (now why would I want to do that!)

Thanks!

[Abbott]

I haven't found much rust on my bus. So for what it's worth, I am not pulling up the plywood on my floor.

(I should be sleeping, I am raising the roof on my bus in a few hours)