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Old 12-11-2017, 08:51 PM   #1
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Moving from sailboat to skoolie

Hello all. My name is Andrew. I have been a liveaboard sailor going on two years now. I recently met an amazing woman who decided she wants to travel in a similiar fashion. Well we decided to take a break from the boat life. We recently lost our boat due to hurricane irma. So in the few months since we got another boat and then the we stumbled upon the skoolie idea. I cant wait to dive in and start building. Ive learned a lot from the boat life that I think will transfer to the Skoolie. I do however have some questions if anyone can lend some advice. My main concern is size. We have been thinking short bus, although to more I look the more I want larger. So is there a size between short and huge?! Specific models or motors to stay away from? Tons more questions but I think thats a good starting point. So cheers and thanks in advance. We cant wait to get building our own skoolie!

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Old 12-11-2017, 09:17 PM   #2
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Welcome, and do we ever have a boat load of advice and opinions for you.

Yes, there are actually medium sized buses. What you want to use the bus for will have a lot to do with how long you want to go.

I have a medium size bus (9 window) that suites me well. I like a lot of back road driving and this particular model is very maneuverable. There is 21' of completely flat floorspace, from the back of the driver's seat to the back door, in a 26' vehicle.

No matter how much you like your bus, there is always something better out there. No bus is perfect.

There are medium size buses usually in front engine (FE) or conventional (dognose) style. Never say never, because I'm still seeing buses I didn't know existed.

Any chance we'll see a bus with a sail on it in the future?
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
Welcome, and do we ever have a boat load of advice and opinions for you.

Yes, there are actually medium sized buses. What you want to use the bus for will have a lot to do with how long you want to go.

I have a medium size bus (9 window) that suites me well. I like a lot of back road driving and this particular model is very maneuverable. There is 21' of completely flat floorspace, from the back of the driver's seat to the back door, in a 26' vehicle.

No matter how much you like your bus, there is always something better out there. No bus is perfect.

There are medium size buses usually in front engine (FE) or conventional (dognose) style. Never say never, because I'm still seeing buses I didn't know existed.

Any chance we'll see a bus with a sail on it in the future?
Hey! Thats great news because ive come up with about 50 more ideas/questions since posting that. That sounds about perfect for us. I plan to use the bus as a permanent home while Noémie and I travel. We are planning a year+ trip to Mexico and south. I tend to dive into things such as the boat life. Since the boat has only been me by myself I was very forgiving with amenities. But with two us of and hopefully a puppy I have new stipulations. So something maneuverable, while still homey and her requirments are mostly the galley (kitchen) and head (bathroom). Whereas I want off grid capabilty like solar and wood burning furnace. Glad you said that because now im thinking a small head sail could really add some flare and save on fuel efficiency;).

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Old 12-11-2017, 09:53 PM   #4
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Only if the winds are favorable.

These medium size FE buses are made by several manufacturers. I've got a Bluebird, but other members have basically the same thing made by other manufacturers. The buses with larger 22.5" wheels will have weelwells intruding through the floor, while the medium buses with 19.5" wheels are flatfloor buses. You may find uses for the chairlift in some of these buses.

A lot of people are installing wood stoves. I live in Oregon and have used a wood stove most of my life, but I'm not in favor of their use in buses, but many people are. I don't want to be thinking about cutting firewood while I'm on an extended trip. There are easier fuels that allow more free time, but wood would be a good backup or trashburner. You really won't need much heat in Mexico. You will need insulation an AC.

Each question you ask here will begin getting multiple opinions in response, so fire away.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:01 PM   #5
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Only if the winds are favorable.

These medium size FE buses are made by several manufacturers. I've got a Bluebird, but other members have basically the same thing made by other manufacturers. The buses with larger 22.5" wheels will have weelwells intruding through the floor, while the medium buses with 19.5" wheels are flatfloor buses. You may find uses for the chairlift in some of these buses.

A lot of people are installing wood stoves. I live in Oregon and have used a wood stove most of my life, but I'm not in favor of their use in buses, but many people are. I don't want to be thinking about cutting firewood while I'm on an extended trip. There are easier fuels that allow more free time, but wood would be a good backup or trashburner. You really won't need much heat in Mexico. You will need insulation an AC.

Each question you ask here will begin getting multiple opinions in response, so fire away.
Ah okay so that's something I hadnt realized. Some have portuding wheel wells and others dont. What do you gain or give up with either option? I agree for mexico but our build will likely take place in Ohio. Plus I just think they're super cool. I have to do a shower so is there anything specific about cutting a floor drain as far as placement? Trying to draw up some floor plans but it really depends on the size. So you're 21' by how much? Thats about perfect for our wants. Ive been planning on a short bus but I think the bigger size will mame live much more enjoyable.


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Old 12-11-2017, 10:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by andrewhaus1022 View Post
Ah okay so that's something I hadnt realized. Some have portuding wheel wells and others dont. What do you gain or give up with either option? I agree for mexico but our build will likely take place in Ohio. Plus I just think they're super cool. I have to do a shower so is there anything specific about cutting a floor drain as far as placement? Trying to draw up some floor plans but it really depends on the size. So you're 21' by how much? Thats about perfect for our wants. Ive been planning on a short bus but I think the bigger size will mame live much more enjoyable.


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The wheel wells kind of have to be conveniently covered up by cabinetry or a couch or something. Having a flat foor allows more choice about where things will go. It's not that big of a problem either way. Personally I like moving around in here without tripping over a wheel well.

The majority of buses are 8' wide measured from exterior walls. Each wall is about 3" thick, so you end up with about 7' 6" in width. Yes, this one is 21' from the back door to the back of the driver's seat. Some are a couple feet longer.

Most people set up a nice bowling alley down the middle of the bus. Isles down the side only seem to work for shorter people because of how the roof curves down.

My five window shorty is 25' long and has about 14' of floor space from the back door to the back of the driver's seat. Compare that to my current 26' bus with 21' of unimpeded floor space. Most of the dognose buses loose 10 or 12 feet, while this bus looses 5'.

It's not a perfect argument. Driving a FE or RE bus feels a lot different than driving a conventional dognose bus. There's a learning curve, but it's easy enough. I'd suggest going to the local bus reseller and attempting to test drive various buses. Be picky. Buying a bus and then having to turn around and buy tires can hurt your wallet.

I think you know what to look for basically. Try to avoid the Allison 545 transmission, but it's not a dealbreaker if it's a good bus for you. It's a good transmission, but it's at the lower end of the Allison's. The good news is the 545 is common so it's easy to replace.

My bus also has a 545. It's a four speed automatic that works well for the most part.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:37 PM   #7
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Location: Essex, MD
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Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
(*#&@$*(&$(*%@#)(%#*&@

I just had a full page response to all of this that was lost because of logging in. I even copy/pasted it before hitting the submit button but then got distracted when the page took forever to load and started copying hyperlinks for something else.

Round 2

Andrew,
Here's the gist of it:
1) Robin doesn't know what he's talking about. His bus is a "van" and doubles as a fishing cabin. Ask him how many fish he's caught.
2) RE/FE have nothing to do with drivability... not mutually exclusive.
3) Robin is off by a 1/4" on widths They (Blue Birds) measure 89 3/4" wide.
4) Naming conventions and measuring.

Conventional = dog nose, transit = flat nose. There are grammar nazi here. Only a couple but this will make a difference when shopping.

I've heard but not confirmed that Blue Bird makes/made a "7 window" bus in a flat nose. So, "medium" can be had in both conventional and transit buses. "Windows" are the layman's "standard" for measuring a bus. Never mind the fact that my bus has both 25" and 32" wide windows. A 12, 13, and 14 window/row bus may all be 40' long. Nothing short of a tape measure will give you a true length. There are just SOOOO many factory options in buses.

When looking at buses online, you'll see "transit" on some. This means it's a city metro bus, a dog nose with underbelly storage, or a flat nose school bus with or without underbelly storage.

Flat nose buses have the advantage of having more interior space with the same bumper to bumper length as a dog nose. You lose 5 feet for the engine and another 5' for the dash and driver's seat. Flat nose buses only lose the 5' for the drivers seat.

FE/RE (Front Engine/Rear Engine)... Rear engine buses have a bench and then engine deck in the rear. Perfect place for a bed. Cabinets wouldn't really work unless you got knuckle dragging arms as the engine deck is about 3 feet deep. The bench is about a foot tall and foot deep in front of that. That would make one DEEP cabinet.

Flat nose buses are supposed to be harder to do engine work on. Maybe that's the FE flat noses? I've got what looks like plenty of room on my RE but I've not tried turning a wrench with a 3' extension on it yet.

Driving; flat nose buses have the steer wheels BEHIND the driver. You pull into an intersection about half way , then turn the steering wheel. I like it but I'm comfortable in anything with more than 2 wheels. On the same chassis length, the wheel base will be shorter on flat noses and smaller turning radius. You won't be making any U turns on 2 lane roads tho.

Height; 74 or 78 inches interior. Mine is 74" at the moment. In the middle of a 15" raise. Blue Bird love rivets. Thomas/International loves screws.

Thomas bus windows tilt inward. Raises are usually done under the windows else the ceiling get narrow.

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Old 12-13-2017, 02:53 PM   #8
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Howdy & Welcome! --- If you have been living aboard a boat for a while, you will have a head start on many bus builders. Space utilization is a very big deal for both and sailors have been dealing with it cleverly for a few hundred years.

Best place to start is by reading as much here as you can stand while developing a picture of just how you plan on using your rig. What works for one builder (short hops around town) will not work for another (rough, back country roads with long highway stretches in between).

Once you have an idea of what your needs are, find the very best unit you can afford that fits your needs. Avoid rust whenever possible. Remember, a set of six tires on these rigs can easily run a couple of grand. Try to find the best engine/tranny/gearing combo you can for your purpose. A lot of Skoolies are limited to 45-50 mph. Find out before you buy. Try to get as many gears as possible if an automatic trans. There are quite a few 5 speeds out there and many can have 6th gear unlocked for double overdrive. Mighty nice for sipping fuel at 65. And while there are LOTS of Allison AT545's still around, personally I would avoid them. I tried giving a perfectly good one away for free and got zero takers. Allison is just about out of parts for them and they lack "lock up". Lock up is a feature that you will greatly appreciate if you ever encounter steep roads. It allows for engine braking downhill where the old 545's just coast...and pick up speed...and put all the work on the brakes.

Overall, a reasonably maintained diesel will give far superior service, last longer and require less maintenance and fuel than any gasoline burner in a rig the size of a bus. (When was the last time you saw a gas powered 18-wheeler?) The only general engine notes I can offer are that Mercedes are REALLY expensive on parts & maintenance. Cats are similar, very high priced parts compared to Cummins, International and most others. And anything after about 1994 will have all manner of complicated emissions nonsense to deal with. Many of those early models had really half-ass systems slapped on in a hurry and are real troublemakers. There are probably some that worked out the problems but unless you are comfortable (and capable) of dealing with multiple computer and sensor issues...I would shoot for something that did not have an "E" (Electronic) in it's title.

There is plenty more to consider and I am confident others here will chime in with their own take on the shopping process.

Best of luck on the hunt and please do keep us up on your progress.
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Old 12-13-2017, 03:01 PM   #9
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Never loose your sealegs! In fact you might better stick with the boat.
You will be in for far more work than you expect, no matter what you buy.
If the gf is good at wrenching, then by all means...hit the road!

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