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Old 03-20-2018, 06:32 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megabea View Post
yea, it is small enough to weld in patches , but i have read a few do these steps after a rough initial cleaning
1 rust converter
2 good rustolium paint
3 use the discarded side panels to cut right sized patches
4 get spray cans of undercoating , spray patch area
5 apply patch and use screws to attach
6 either more undercoating or paint
after all its all going to be buried under your insulation and sub floor and you get a good tar type of sealant , and u can spray more undercoating from under the floor to seal the other side

sounds like it would work anyway
For what it's worth, that is damn near exactly what I have been doing the past week. I have used pop rivets instead of screws though. I'll post a picture here in a bit.

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Old 03-20-2018, 06:38 PM   #162
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Haha ... Good luck with that.

You will need "tiny hands" and ones that are immune to all the screws sticking out into that space.

I have removed all that insulation now, and it was the toughest job on the bus so far.

Removing the ceiling was a breeze in comparison.
Removing that insulation after cutting my side walls off was a breeze. I don't have tiny hands just average sized hands, but the insulation came out in nearly whole pieces when removed. Maybe different bus bodies have larger gaps between the interior wall and exterior wall?
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:30 AM   #163
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Started on the wood floors. Getting it done bit by bit....

And my generator showed up! Yay! Not before I went to work on it, of course, so it'll get some use tomorrow through the weekend
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:26 PM   #164
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More progress! Got the generator finally, so went out tonight to finish removing all the screws and torx, the rest of the seat bolts, and finished removing the floors! After seeing the first hole I was worried, but did not find any more holes! There are a few areas where the rust is pretty bad and chunks were flaking off, so we will see how it looks after hitting that rust. My manager told me he knows someone who will help weld up anything for free so he can get more practice so I said okay!

Also, while I was underneath getting the last of the seat bolts, I noticed a spec of white under some dirt on the rear end, and found my ratio! It's 4.7. Not sure what all that means yet, but good to finally find out.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:31 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by jjhwick119 View Post
More progress! Got the generator finally, so went out tonight to finish removing all the screws and torx, the rest of the seat bolts, and finished removing the floors! After seeing the first hole I was worried, but did not find any more holes! There are a few areas where the rust is pretty bad and chunks were flaking off, so we will see how it looks after hitting that rust. My manager told me he knows someone who will help weld up anything for free so he can get more practice so I said okay!

Also, while I was underneath getting the last of the seat bolts, I noticed a spec of white under some dirt on the rear end, and found my ratio! It's 4.7. Not sure what all that means yet, but good to finally find out.
Lower ratio (higher geared) rear axles give better performance on the highway at the expense of pulling power on hills and in town.

The FD Ratio on it's own doesn't tell you a lot (there isn't a single, good ratio), it's the combination of the engine rpm, transmission ratios and FD that get it done.

For example ... for many buses a ratio in the low 4s would be ideal, but in mine that would give a ridiculously high top-speed and compromise acceleration.

So my 5.38 is about perfect IF I can get 6th gear unlocked. Others have different ideal numbers.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:07 AM   #166
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Yep. The functionality of any engine/gearing is best worked out in advance on a gearing calculator. Tire size, trans ratio, final drive and all the other numbers need to be run to get to a good balance of top end and take off.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:15 AM   #167
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HEre is the one I use. It has a tire diameter calculator at the bottom.

Gear Ratio Calculator
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Old 03-24-2018, 12:08 AM   #168
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Thanks for that info. For my intended use, this setup works well. I wish I could hit 65 a little under 2600 though

More progress! After work tonight I ran out to the bus so I could cut the walls off without bothering anyone by the noise. Turns out I wasn't the only one out there at 11pm so oh well, I alrdy made my plan. The walls are out! Finally the usable interior space is now all gutted out and ready to be transformed! I have not done the front driver area yet, but will try and tackle that this weekend. Also gonna try and get all that trash hauled off as well so I can start working on the fun stuff! Not meaning rust treating and insulation is fun, but the demo is done!
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:05 PM   #169
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Here is actually a better gear calculator that provides a spreadsheet result
https://www.andysautosport.com/learn...r/calculators/

Knowing all the variables is critical.
And be understanding that lugging a diesel will cost you mileage to. Some need to spin faster to get mileage.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:33 PM   #170
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2600 is pushing a 466E. You should be keeping it around 22-2400 for longevity and mpg's based on what I have been reading.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:38 PM   #171
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2600 is pushing a 466E. You should be keeping it around 22-2400 for longevity and mpg's based on what I have been reading.
Thank you, I will keep this in mind. I can still get 60 at 2400 so thats not bad.

All my trash will be getting hauled off tomorrow if the guy with trailer comes through, and then i will start sanding down the floor and a good sweep to see exactly what I'm working with, and then start treating the rust i can, and see about the parts i cant. It doesnt appear to be much, so i might just get an 18ga piece of sheet metal from lowes and some epoxy and just seal it myself in small areas
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:42 PM   #172
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Just for the record...the "Sweet Spot" on most diesel engines is at or slightly above the peak rated torque number (like about +10% max). Two stroke engines may be slightly different from what I understand.
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:10 AM   #173
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Just for the record...the "Sweet Spot" on most diesel engines is at or slightly above the peak rated torque number (like about +10% max). Two stroke engines may be slightly different from what I understand.

my 444E(V8 diesel) is rated max torque at 1300, max HP at 2300, when I run it at 65 MPH at 1550-1600. im too low,(my computer will report close to 100% load on the slightest of incline). drop it to 5th gear where im in that 1750-1800 range and its happy.... technically our school bus engines are probably a bit under-powered from the factory for driving them on long road trips like most of us do (or plan to).. the need for slightly higher RPMs helps a bit

a Navistar DT(inline 6) is considered "Safe" up to 3000 RPMs by the book, at a cost is ultimate longevity (also noted in the book).. in. school bus getting your DT to run in that 1900 RPM range would be advantageous.. it still gives you enough RPM to spool the turbo but not so high as to waste fuel.

to me, I like gears.. more gears offers the best of both worlds.. still keep your Low ratio for getting up to speed, power for soft-ground, and yet retain the ability to get highway speed at reasonable RPM.

most people with Cummins I talk to like them in that 1700-1900 RPM range for cruising.

-Christopher
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:50 AM   #174
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Roger that Christopher. One good piece of advice for diesel newbies is simply to listen to big rigs when on the road. You never hear them wind out for good reason. They go through the gears while keeping the engine down where it pulls most efficiently (course, they do typically have a LOT more gears than we do). But that is the point of all those close ratio gears. They never have to rev it to keep pulling. Even out on open highway you will hear them chugging (not lugging) along at 70 and their engines sound like they are almost idling. They drive that way because it gets the best mpg's ($$$) and...keeps the motor out of the service bay ($$$).

Learn from those guys. Keep it in the sweet spot.

Gearing and tire size (diameter) can help you stay closer to it even if you only have four gears to work with.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:07 AM   #175
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https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-...-fl-oz/3078183

is this what im looking for for the floor paint? about to go out there and gonna swing by store on my way out to get another sanding flapper disc and some ospho, figured id get the paint as well
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:21 AM   #176
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https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-...-fl-oz/3078183

is this what im looking for for the floor paint? about to go out there and gonna swing by store on my way out to get another sanding flapper disc and some ospho, figured id get the paint as well
That's the one.....make sure your rust converter is dry first.

And get a fun color.....it's going to be covered anyway.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:26 AM   #177
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Allowing most rust converters to dry thoroughly can be critical. Many of them, if not completely dried/cured...will actually accelerate oxidation instead of preventing it.

Make sure to read the directions on whatever you use!
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:29 AM   #178
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I'll be treating it today and painting it on Tuesday on my day off so should be fine. Just buying stuff today

And all the trash is gone! Got a nice blank canvas for all the fun to begin! S9 glad to be done with the demo part
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:08 PM   #179
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Do I need primer before paint like the can says, or can I just ospho and paint on top? Going with Hunter green because I was considering a green for exterior and wanna see how it looks
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:42 PM   #180
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Do I need primer before paint like the can says, or can I just ospho and paint on top? Going with Hunter green because I was considering a green for exterior and wanna see how it looks
I just ospho-ed and put on two coats of Rustoleum......seems to be holding up fine to my foot traffic, creeper wheels, and dropped tools........no chipping or scrape marks.
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