New Project!

[Jarlaxle]

Don't paint the whole bus white! You will rip your hair out trying to keep it clean!

[Alex and Angie]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

Don't paint the whole bus white! You will rip your hair out trying to keep it clean!

hahaha thats probably very true. I think in the end we will go with the dark forest green. That way when we are in the woods we will blend in nicely : ).
I always thought white would look really cool during our Canadian winters, though at times it might make it difficult to locate!

[Jarlaxle]

If you plan to go ANYWHERE warm, use a light color, especially on top. I would paint the top of it white or silver to reflect heat. I painted the roof (everything above the stock windows height) white on both of mine, and it helps a lot. On my B700, when parked in the sun in Florida, the roof was warm, the sides (gray) were very warm, the rubrails & trim (maroon) were too hot to touch, the bumpers (flat black) were hot enough to burn.

My Genesis is just light blue (with white roof), though it will get added to this coming spring.

Also, I suggest using flat black, or at least a flat version of whatever color you choose, for the top of the hood to eliminate reflections & glare.

[Tango]

Have to agree on the white/light roof. Makes a huge difference in absorbed heat.

As for the rib question...I was talking about the gap in the original ribs where the roof was raised. I know you have the square tube in place but are you planning on "filling in" the space between the upper & lower ribs with new sections of rib over the square tube? The square tube by itself does not resist flexing anything near as well as the original ribs plus it provides a surface for attaching new skin. When the two are combined & welded together it should provide all the stiffness needed (that's according to a Blue Bird engineer I consulted with on my 19" raise). I bought several complete ribs and cut what I needed to connect the upper and lower existing segments.

[bus-bro]

I painted my bus with machinery green industrial acrylic paint, applied by an airless sprayer. Water based paint, half hour to paint, fifeteen minutes to clean the machine. Looks great, and the bus, sitting in front of the trees and shrubs, hides well. Did I say--it looks great. Not good by paint brush or roller, though.

When you get rid of the yellow, you'll like your bus even more.

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by Tango

As for the rib question...I was talking about the gap in the original ribs where the roof was raised. I know you have the square tube in place but are you planning on "filling in" the space between the upper & lower ribs with new sections of rib over the square tube? The square tube by itself does not resist flexing anything near as well as the original ribs plus it provides a surface for attaching new skin. When the two are combined & welded together it should provide all the stiffness needed (that's according to a Blue Bird engineer I consulted with on my 19" raise). I bought several complete ribs and cut what I needed to connect the upper and lower existing segments.

IMHO, as the original 1-piece ribs have been cut, they lost almost all their former strength. Patching a short filler piece probably will not help a lot. A better way will be to run diagonal top-to-bottom pieces inside the wall (front top to rear bottom corners within some panels) where they do not interfere with windows. Best places would be the 4 body corners and midship (ideally top rear corner down forward at rear and top front rearwards at front).

[thommassey]

Originally Posted by Tango

Have to agree on the white/light roof. Makes a huge difference in absorbed heat.

As for the rib question... I bought several complete ribs and cut what I needed to connect the upper and lower existing segments.

Where do you get complete ribs? From factory? Even '86? I like that idea alot.

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by spencerforhire

This comes from another 2 foot roof raise. It does look quite a bit stronger

This is exactly what I was writing about.

[Tango]

thommassey --- roger the factory ribs. They have remained virtually unchanged for a very long time. In fact, they are the same ribs they used on the high dollar Wanderlodges at least until the late 90's or so and may still. Blue Bird will only sell them as complete, one piece units. No such thing as "repair sections". They are extremely particular about how their buses are repaired and take the engineering very seriously. In fact, they really flinch at any modifications at all, let alone the kind most conversions involve. As you may know, the Birds have the strongest body/chassis combination of any skoolie and they are quite proud of that fact. If I hadn't been living on Georgia at the time, right down the road from one of their engineers, I probably never could have gotten an opinion regarding a roof raise. They won't even discuss it "officially". There are actually quite a few locations around the country that service the Blue Bird school bus line and I happened to have one here in Houston where I did my raise and the ribs were not that expensive. Check with the factory for the closest location.

I too had considered adding diagonal braces, but the Bird tech advised against it...unless I did it all the way around. His logic being that adding them here and there would create strong points that would cause uneven loading, and uniform loading was one of the major engineering goals of their design. Not to say it won't work, but since I'm no structural engineer, I went with his advice. He was also adamant about keeping the front and rear caps in tact, as the overall design is very dependent on the strength they provide the rest of the system.

[thommassey]

Originally Posted by Tango

[b]... They are extremely particular about how their buses are repaired and take the engineering very seriously. In fact, they really flinch at any modifications at all, let alone the kind most conversions involve. As you may know, the Birds have the strongest body/chassis combination of any skoolie and they are quite proud of that .... He was also adamant about keeping the front and rear caps in tact, as the overall design is very dependent on the strength they provide the rest of the system.

Strong reasoning for me to reconsider roof raise... but, since it is my first bus, I may go with one similiar to "New project", just not so tall. Maybe 12-18 inches.. with the integrated roof rack/deck. Won't be carrying much as far as load (so I say now)

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by thommassey

Strong reasoning for me to reconsider roof raise... but, since it is my first bus, I may go with one similiar to "New project", just not so tall. Maybe 12-18 inches.. with the integrated roof rack/deck. Won't be carrying much as far as load (so I say now)

Another benefit of the deck is that protects the roof from direct sunlight= stays cooler!.

[Tango]

"Another benefit of the deck is that protects the roof from direct sunlight= stays cooler!."

Excellent logic. If you look at the old safari built Land Rovers designed for use in Africa, they all had a double roof with an open air gap in between. No matter where you were, the actual "roof" was always in the shade! Makes huge difference.

[Alex and Angie]

We feel that there are two different ways to do the roof raise. If you're only going up a little bit and you're not changing the window openings, then you could use a thiner gauge tubbing and put the rib sections back in. Or if you are going to be changing a lot of the window openings, then the structure is already changed so much that it would be better to go with diagonals instead of sporadically repairing the rib sections.

We appreciate the concern about the structural integrity of the bus after the roof raise, but feel with the cross beams we have added, we will have no problems with the structure.

Tango, We think the advice you got from bluebird was more about liability as opposed to structural issues. We understand that our bus would not handle a roll-over situation as well as a stock school bus, but it is made of steel and not wood, so it will still be one of the strongest RV's out there.

Thanks to everyone for the painting advice! : ) We are thinking about going with the Hy-Tech Bus Kote with the Flexi-Clear coating. The Flexi-Clear is supposed to be hydrophobic and should repel dirt even though it is white. http://www.hytechsales.com/prod2150.html Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by Tango

"Another benefit of the deck is that protects the roof from direct sunlight= stays cooler!."

Excellent logic. If you look at the old safari built Land Rovers designed for use in Africa, they all had a double roof with an open air gap in between. No matter where you were, the actual "roof" was always in the shade! Makes huge difference.

Here is a Land Rover with double roof:
http://images.wikia.com/tractors/images ... s_1_HT.jpg

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by Alex and Angie

We appreciate the concern about the structural integrity of the bus after the roof raise, but feel with the cross beams we have added, we will have no problems with the structure.

Tango, We think the advice you got from bluebird was more about liability as opposed to structural issues. We understand that our bus would not handle a roll-over situation as well as a stock school bus, but it is made of steel and not wood, so it will still be one of the strongest RV's out there.

Due to the extreme height of your bus probably a roll-over is not a high risk, most likely will just lie on it's side. But if you carry a lot of weight the structure may collapse before rolling over. Keep your center of gravity as low as possible.
Also keep in mind that not the thickness of the material but it's hardness is what you are looking for. Diagonals (or triangulation) gives more resistance everything else being equal. Ideally (but real hard to implement) X braces at four locations (ends and equally spaced within the body) across the body would give maximum protection, like a race car anti-roll cage. But it is probably overkill.

[bansil]

Originally Posted by pipopak

Due to the extreme height of your bus probably a roll-over is not a high risk, most likely will just lie on it's side. But if you carry a lot of weight the structure may collapse before rolling over. Keep your center of gravity as low as possible.
Also keep in mind that not the thickness of the material but it's hardness is what you are looking for. Diagonals (or triangulation) gives more resistance everything else being equal. Ideally (but real hard to implement) X braces at four locations (ends and equally spaced within the body) across the body would give maximum protection, like a race car anti-roll cage. But it is probably overkill.

but it's hardness is what you are looking for

hardness has really nothing to do with it,integrity of the material is more important ie:A36 or HRS hot rolled steel is more than likely going to be recycled material,not the purest form.And a pc of HRS and CRS(cold rolled steell) will be very close to the same "hardness", hardness doesn't come into play unless we start heat treating materials to change thier properties to better suit there needs
Speaking of integrety typical roll bar material varies with sanctioning body etc. it does not include square tubing due to round tubing being stronger and less likely to fold or kink

like a race car anti-roll cage.

sorry that just made me laugh,every time we put a cage in something it acts like a "I want to roll bar"

I agree that a normal oops will probably result in a flop not a roll, and I'm not sure exactly what it would take to keep 18,000 lb off your head in a drop off that flops hard onto the roof.

We are planning a 12-14" raise and will keep the front cap intact and transition it to the roof for aesthetics and keeping side to side integrety factory,I actually am planning to tie in three walls side to side to act as braces,triangles are harder to collapse than squares

[thommassey]

Originally Posted by pipopak

Here is a Land Rover with double roof:
http://images.wikia.com/tractors/images ... s_1_HT.jpg

Though I have changed my mind on roof raise, I am going to cut into the roof to build a deck for several reasons, one being the "shadow"I will appreciate while in the dessert... Thank you for that. I saw The Land Rover's second roof.. I am not sure what material to use for mine, maybe alum diamond plate, light yet strong. I don't think expanded metal would give enough shade, and wood... not sure there. If it was treated I suppose (3/4") . Need to research more ( i.e. read more on these pages )

[nate1191]

What are you going to use for insulation?

[Alex and Angie]

This week we got all the welding done on both of the sides. We are still working on the back and the front but we want to get it mostly closed in as winter approaches. We painted the floor and the posts and we have started hanging sheet metal. We are reusing the sheet that we took down from the ceiling. The holes from where the lights were will have to be welded closed, but 4 of 10 landed in window openings so they will be cut out anyways.

http://angieandalex.blogspot.com/2011/12/sheeting.html

[thommassey]

You guys are doing a fine job in short order...