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Old 03-31-2013, 08:51 PM   #11
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Re: One-way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part-time
... The 60 gallon ...fresh water holding.

...The kitchen sink is going over the wheelwell and the 30 gallon hot water tank will be hiding under the kitchen counter.

...My greywater holding is 60 gallons as well so I never have to worry about going over.
60 gallons + 30 gallons = 90 gallons
You don't really use a whole lot of water to flush with. We plumbed our vanity sink into the black tank to make sure we got enough water in the black tank and it's still "iffy" on TP heavy times (only women will understand ).

How tall is the 30 gallon tank? How much height do you have under the counter for the tank? Jut asking be cause that is how we went from 20 gallon water heater to 10 gallon water heater... missed it by that much! If there was only 2" more space! And that was including sitting the heater on the floor. My sinks were too deep.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:17 PM   #12
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Re: One-way

Using your hot water heater wired for 240 volt is no more efficient than running it off two individual 15 amp, 120 volt wires. The only saving is the wire to attach it.

Since buses are only so big, there will be no real saving on a wire run that short. If it were in a 4000 square foot house, where the water heater was 100 feet from the breaker panel, it would make a difference.

For simplicity, and versatility, I would wire it using 120. You can also run one element at a time if you need to. Say your parking, and have access to a 15 amp shore connection, and don't want to run a generator. One element only takes 1500 of the 1800 watts available. Lights and a flat panel TV could be running while your hot water is heating up.

Nat

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #13
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Re: One-way

I wouldn't do 240 either. But that is a personal thing. We stay on shore power and at that it's 30 amp. Why? Because we are CHEAP... 30 amp sites cost less than 50 amp sites... Residential Vehicles set up for 30 amp tend to (in our case) use less power than similar 50 amp which comes in handy when you are parked some place and paying $0.14 or more per KWH... most of the public campground we have stayed over the years tend to have 15/20/30 amp power poles.... we do not completely trust that the newly "upgraded to 50 amp receptacle" on old 15/20/30 amp power poles are completely safe... many 50 amp receptacles tend to be damaged in some way. I've seen an awful lot of damaged 50 amp receptacles as I've plugged my 30 amp plug into a power pole. It's as if they use the wrong plug... but that surely can't be. 50 amp RV plugs and receptacles are specifically a certain kind. They are wired a specific way. Not the same as residential 50 amp (or so I understand).

Many places, particularly boondocking places, only allow generators (no matter how quiet) run for a few hours between certain hours. NF & BLM do enforce these times. Others will report you. Some will confront you in a not so nice way. Boondockers are off their nut in many cases.

We wallydock (pavement parking, overnight parking in a parking lot) and there are some parking lots that will not allow a generator or semi-truck engines to be run past a certain time (like the Wal-Mart in New Braunfels, TX) due to the neigbourhood(s) sitting next door. Most folks don't park for more than one night in a parking lot. But we might stay a couple nights in Sept if we stop by Socorro for a few days. We will just park in the parking lot of the store my daughter works at. We'll ask her "permission"!

Rethink your water. If it's "clean enough to swim in" is not a good way to determine your potable water source, even for just showering. If you must do that, then invest in a reverse osmosis setup with a boondocker recycling tank. We drink the campground/rest area/garden center water hose tap water... after it has gone thru the sediment filter and the DB2 or similar filter which knocks the flow rate down to 1 gpm the filtered water flows into our fresh/potable water holding tank. We always pump from the holding tank. Currently we have only a 30 gallon holding tank but I will add another 30 gallon tank this summer (with valves so we can shut it off and travel with only the 30 gallons fresh). We have the tank set up to where it will start filling when a (modified) water tank float valve opens and closes when the float valve is in the "full" position. This works great for us since neither one of us wants to hang around waiting for the tank to S-L-O-W-L-Y fill... at 1--gallon--per--minute... (yes, I did just watch Sneakers again) and then overflow all over the ground because we walked away and forgot all about it. Like we would ever do that!
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #14
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Re: One-way

[quote=Part-time][quote="nat_ster":s5z9ie0z]Using your hot water heater wired for 240 volt is no more efficient than running it off two individual 15 amp, 120 volt wires. The only saving is the wire to attach it. ...

Posted for educational purposes only.[/quote]

2 individual 15 amp, 120v (the red and the black in most cases) = 30 amp 240volt...
1 live (either the black [b][u]or[/u][/b] the red) + 1 white (common) = 15 amp 120v
Same amount of wires.[/quote:s5z9ie0z]


Not quite.
Wiring the tank in 240 you only need one run of Romex 12 / 2. That uses the black wire to the hot side of the elements, and the white to the red wire on the tank. Then connect the ground, and your done. Wiring this way is called split-phase electricity. It doesn't require a common wire.



If you wire the tank to use two 120 circuits, you would need two runs of Romex 12 / 2, or one run of Romex 12 / 3. Wiring this way you need the common wire.



In short 120 wiring is always a loop. Requires a common wire to return to the panel. 240 wiring the common wire is eliminated.

For reference.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power[/url]

More good reading.
http://waterheatertimer.org/Figure-Volt ... eater.html

Nat

Posted for educational purposes only.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:12 PM   #15
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Re: One-way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part-time
... I'm putting a 60 amp panel in the bus.... overkill, but I like it that way and the panel was free
It's your bus. You build it the way you want, not the way the rest of us want. Because there is no one way to convert a bus.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:35 PM   #16
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Re: One-way

I put in a Square D 100 amp distribution panel. It was less than $30. Then you buy a separate ground bar, so you can have an isolated neutral bar. They also sell a little piece of plastic that locks a breaker in the panel so that that breaker can backfeed the panel (that is, be your main circuit breaker.) So, for somewhere around fifty-plus dollars you have an NEC approved power panel in your bus.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:57 PM   #17
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Re: One-way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part-time
Natster... your last example, using 12/3, is not a 240v set up, that is 120v to each element.
Yes, That's why the diagram pic say's 120 volt right on it.

Your 1st example using the red and the black is 240v and is just what I said I was going to do...
Now my tank only has ONE element. My bad, I didn't realize you had a single element. Thanks for the correction.

It is made to be used on 240v but I could have wired it using only 120v, but it would have been slower heating up and taken more energy to do it. Slower heating yes. Take more energy, No. We need to keep this info correct for others that learn from it in the future.
Love the conversion, Just doing my part to keep the learning resources factual.

Nat

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:39 AM   #18
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Re: One-way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part-time

I'll be more specific... my generator will be my main source of power for the hot water tank.
So if I cut down the run time on my generator I save gas.
gas = energy (and that you really learn the day you have to push a 900# Harley 2 blocks uphill to the neerest gas station, just then do you realize just how much energy is in a cup of gasoline )
So a two element tank would have been a better choice? Less energy again?

I just installed two new, duel element electric water heating tanks to run a Hydronic heating system. I found the price from one element to two is only $20.

I feel your pain. I have had to push a few cars uphill to the gas station.

Nat
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:29 PM   #19
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Re: One-way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part-time
I don't even know if they make those little tanks with 2 elements...
I bought it used for $50 but it's only 6 months old. The guy decided to go with natural gas furnace/hot water boiler system.
He also gave me the 70 gallon tank for free, he said it was about 2 years old at most.
You got a good deal.

As long as they guy you got the tanks from didn't have high mineral in his water, your home free. The only thing that really fails on electric hot water tanks, are the elements ( cheap $25 ) thermostats ( $25 ) and the sacrificial anode corrodes, all after 5 to 10 years. If you change the sacrificial anode before it fails completely, you will extend your water heaters life span to almost double. That's why tanks with bigger sacrificial anodes have a longer warranty.

Yes, they make small tanks with two elements. Most residential tanks only operate one element at a time, unless you rewire them. Rewiring them is a simple proses. You can also change the elements from the 3000W factory installed, to a 4500w for faster warm up. ( $25 at most places )


Next step is to see if I can set the thermostat on the tank down to 85*-90*F
Why waste energy heating up the water just to cool it back down with cold water to get it to a comfy temp right?
I will only have one water line/tap going to the shower.
I will also need a thermometer that can be installed in the tank with a remote read out.
This all depends on how much hot water you need. Keep in mind most cold water is 30 degrees colder than you want to use on you body. If the water in your tank is not hot enough to overcome the cold water entering the tank, you will be left with a cold shower.

Keep in mind that electric water heaters heaters are 100% efficient. Unlike gas units, hotter water only uses the energy needed to heat the water. In gas units, the efficiency drops the hotter you try to make the water. The waste heat go's up the vent stack. Electric can't put the heat anywhere but into the water.

Also you MUST make sure your water heater is 100% full with no air inside. They should also remain under min 30 psi pressure. Failure to do so will result in a melted element.

And now the part you asked about. Turning the thermostat up and down is as simple as pulling the cover, ( two 1\4 screws ) and using a flat screwdriver, turn the little plastic screw in the middle of the thermostat clockwise.



Nat

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Old 04-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #20
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Re: One-way

I really like my propane 6gal hot water tank, works great , just light it up with a match then hot water, nice and simple for me
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