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10-19-2018, 08:58 AM
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#41
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Well.... Lacking info to make an informed choice, I pulled the trigger on the SEM self etching.
It should be here Monday. Praying for good weather.
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10-19-2018, 10:11 AM
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#42
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Regarding "self etching" primers...
Check the label. Don't know about SEM but most call for applying a very light first coat and allowing a half hour or so of etching time before fully coating. A painter buddy here sez it makes a big difference in both bonding and rust prevention.
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10-20-2018, 12:34 PM
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#43
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Regarding "self etching" primers...
Check the label. Don't know about SEM but most call for applying a very light first coat and allowing a half hour or so of etching time before fully coating. A painter buddy here sez it makes a big difference in both bonding and rust prevention.
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Thank you for the Tip!
You may have saved me from screwing it up.
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10-20-2018, 07:43 PM
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#44
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Ya...I get it. I am inclined to lay on as much as possible in one pass (runs included). So this was a good lesson for me too.
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10-22-2018, 12:56 PM
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#45
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Primer is "out for delivery", the sun is shining and the wind is still....
I went out to finish the last bit of prep before I shoot the primer on the bare metal and found the bus COVERED in aphids. I brushed them all off with a broom. Five minutes later and it was covered again.
I contacted the local Farmers Extension Agent and asked about them. Apparently conditions were ideal over the last couple days for them to hatch and they will be around until temps drop below freezing. Too cold to paint.
The options that I see are:
1- Go ahead and prime the metal to protect it over the Winter and accept that, in the Spring, I am going to have to sand all of their little corpses down and spray it again.
2- Leave the metal unprotected and hope for a weather window that will be warm enough to spray but cool enough to avoid the bugs. That would likely have me spraying primer in 40F-50F weather if I am lucky enough to get that. When we see milder temps in the Winter here it is usually damp/rainy.
3- Can't think of another option at the moment.... Suggestions?
I am leaning towards spraying & sanding later but I really have no idea how difficult that will be and if I would need to take it back down to bare metal .
If I have to sand it down to bare metal then I probably don't want to use the $100+ gallon of self etching primer that I bought. Better to find something cheap?
Any suggestions are appreciated as ..... This is really bugging me...
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10-22-2018, 01:02 PM
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#46
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,673
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
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In the two links that you posted, the first is for a gallon while the 2nd is only for a quart. The gallon is 98.86 while the quart is 37.20.
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10-22-2018, 01:07 PM
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#47
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
I contacted the local Farmers Extension Agent and asked about them. Apparently conditions were ideal over the last couple days for them to hatch and they will be around until temps drop below freezing. Too cold to paint.
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I'd get clarification on this. Do you just need an overnight frost to get rid of them or does it need to be below freezing for an extended period of time? I don't know bugs but I bet it's just a good frost you need. Might get warm weather after a snap.
Can you paint a section and cover it with plastic? Make stand-offs or something so the plastic doesn't stick. PITA no doubt but if it keeps the bugs off...
Paint on a windy(er) day? Not so windy that blows the primer away but windy enough the bugs are gone?
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10-22-2018, 01:11 PM
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#48
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
In the two links that you posted, the first is for a gallon while the 2nd is only for a quart. The gallon is 98.86 while the quart is 37.20.
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Oops, thought I checked that. Maybe I was thinking it was 2 quarts to a gallon instead of 4.
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10-22-2018, 01:28 PM
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#49
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Thanks for the suggestions Bob.
The told me that a few days below freezing will kill the aphids off. If I wait for that I run a good chance of it being too cold or wet to paint.
We are having just enough wind from time to time to make keeping the plastic out of the paint challenging.
Any thoughts on going ahead with the spray and sanding them smooth later?
I did read a suggestion on another site that suggested spraying insect repellent on the vehicle..... I have to think that would be a bad idea.
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10-22-2018, 01:58 PM
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#50
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Additionally, I've had good results from painting in the cold. As long as humidity is low you can mix the paint with thinner to work in almost any temperature. Extra light coats, though. The paint runs real easy with the additional thinner and slower dry times.
The big problem I foresee is finding cool temperatures with low humidity in the pacific northwest. My past experiences are that the rain comes in strong and steady this time of year.
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10-22-2018, 02:01 PM
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#51
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
We are having just enough wind from time to time to make keeping the plastic out of the paint challenging.
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And that's not enough to keep them gone?
Quote:
Any thoughts on going ahead with the spray and sanding them smooth later?
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A few bugs here and there, sand just those spots. Hundreds/thousands? Get something cheap and that is easy to remove? A latex or something you can peel off just for the winter.
Quote:
I did read a suggestion on another site that suggested spraying insect repellent on the vehicle..... I have to think that would be a bad idea.
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Sounds terrible. Burning the bug candles would take a 100 candles. Only thing else I've got is a fan blowing directly on where you've painted. Not sure even a barrel fan would give you enough of an area to make it worth while.
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10-22-2018, 02:30 PM
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#52
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
Additionally, I've had good results from painting in the cold. As long as humidity is low you can mix the paint with thinner to work in almost any temperature. Extra light coats, though. The paint runs real easy with the additional thinner and slower dry times.
The big problem I foresee is finding cool temperatures with low humidity in the pacific northwest. My past experiences are that the rain comes in strong and steady this time of year.
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We do get some stretches of nice dry weather in the Winter. Unfortunately those days will be quite cold. We get less than 19" of rain annually.
Can you thin enough to spray, with good results, in near freezing cold?
Thanks.
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10-22-2018, 02:40 PM
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#53
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Sure can! Though conditions need to be just right and takes way longer to dry. Heck, I primed most of my bus with snow on the ground.
Around here the humidity is quite low in the dead of winter when the world is frozen. I've had the best success cold painting outdoors when the weather is well below freezing. If there's snow on the ground and the temperature peaks over the freezing point humidity will become a problem.
If you get desert dry conditions then I wouldn't fear much about painting at any time.
The best thing you can do is experiment with a piece of sheet metal leaning against a fence post or the like. Mix a small batch of thinned paint and tweak it until you can get a light finish with no runs.
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10-22-2018, 02:48 PM
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#54
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
If you get desert dry conditions then I wouldn't fear much about painting at any time.
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Sounds sketchy as hell to me but I'm east coast. It's never not humid.
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10-22-2018, 03:04 PM
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#55
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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the RH is running in the low 40's today. Really a beautiful day except for the supplemental protein flying around.
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10-22-2018, 03:09 PM
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#56
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
the RH is running in the low 40's today. Really a beautiful day except for the supplemental protein flying around.
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Not bad for here but still kinda breezy.
3:47 PM Temp 54 F Dew Point 36 F Humidity 51 % Wind SSW Speed 13 mph Pressure 30.1 in Condition Mostly Cloudy
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10-22-2018, 05:50 PM
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#57
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Well, it is done. A gallon of SEM self etching primer applied with an HF HPLV gun.
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10-23-2018, 06:33 AM
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#58
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
Well, it is done. A gallon of SEM self etching primer applied with an HF HPLV gun.
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AND?!!?
First and foremost, did you use the entire gallon? Was it enough/too much? I'll have a 2 foot band around the front and rear as well as 42" between rub rail and eyebrows to paint. Come to think of it, I'm putting it up unpainted. I can take the rub rails off once it's riveted in place but I'm not about to remove all the eyebrow rivets. Hmm, probably should have painted first.
Second, how were the bugs? Did they stay out of it?
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10-23-2018, 07:00 PM
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#59
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Results:
Three light coats on both sides used almost the entire gallon. I have a fairly nice uniform finish all around.
I wiped everything down with acetone right before I sprayed. I also wiped each panel as I went wit a dry clean cloth to knock any newcomers off before I sprayed.
I wound up with far fewer bugs in the primer than what I expected. Only a few hundred....
I did read on the SEM primer directions that I should not apply color directly to the self etching primer. Ok....
Now what kind of primer do I need to shoot on top of the SEM self etching primer before I shoot the Rustolium????
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10-24-2018, 08:13 AM
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#60
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
I did read on the SEM primer directions that I should not apply color directly to the self etching primer. Ok....
Now what kind of primer do I need to shoot on top of the SEM self etching primer before I shoot the Rustolium????
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Um, what? I'm paying $100 a gallon and I can't paint over it?!!? glad I haven't bought any yet.
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